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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

The erosion of women

524 replies

IHATEPeppaPig · 03/12/2017 22:14

I know, I know 'not another Trans thread' BUT, I am truly interested in people's opinions on this - I was always of the thought that I don't really care how anyone expresses themselves, carry on as you wish and I do still think this to varying degrees but I am concerned about the Trans agenda moving forwards and the erosion of women and reading through Twitter I found the following articles attached to this tweet:

I'm not personally interested in breastfeeding or giving birth. But the #terf assumption that these abilities are "biologically" reserved for AFAB is just one thing: wrong.

www.nytimes.com/2017/12/02/health/uterus-transplant-baby.html

www.thestranger.com/queer-issue-2017/2017/06/21/25225867/my-first-time-breastfeeding-my-daughter

Now, I found the second article creepy - particularly where they mention that they 'got off' on breastfeeding and I'm not entirely sure how factual it actually is but it's scary that people are using this to prove how defunct 'ciswomen' (I HATE this term) are?

OP posts:
Sentimentallentil · 04/12/2017 17:15

I think British culture is very strict with its gender roles for men.
I mean it would be quite shocking for a male politician to wear even the smallest female identifying clothes, even painted nails or a nice silk scarf would be considered weird.

It’s a fact that men are more likely to be ‘successful’ (is that the right way to say it?) when committing suicide and are less likely to ask for help before hand.

MistressDeeCee · 04/12/2017 17:16

VioletHaze if your definition of misogyny = not giving a damn about bowing down and moving aside for any trans who is exercising male privilege to subjugate women then yeah, I'll buy that. Not that you or anybody was even asked to agree with me. I could not care less if you do, or don't. Unlike activists I can stand by my own convictions as opposed to trying to trample others who don't even have equal rights as yet, for my own agenda

OhThisbloodyComputer · 04/12/2017 17:17

@Sentimentallentil

Good point in your final paragraph.

I was rather hoping that you would sort our problems out, given that you have experience of that sort of troubleshooting.

Thank you for your patience. I like the way you explained stuff to me.

Sentimentallentil · 04/12/2017 17:18

And I only brought this up because you asked why frank might have transitioned and I put that forward as a possible reason.

I don’t think that’s why the majority of men transition.

Another hypothesis is that he gets turned on by wearing silk stockings and people thinking he’s a woman.

Sentimentallentil · 04/12/2017 17:20

I don’t think that’s why the majority of men transition either btw but it is one reason for some men.

Lweji · 04/12/2017 17:21

I think British culture is very strict with its gender roles for men.

It was with women as well. Women challenged this. Men haven't for themselves.

PencilsInSpace · 04/12/2017 17:22

Also Frank Maloney is a textbook autogynephile.

Yup. Also a violent thug who tried to strangle his ex wife.

Sentimentallentil · 04/12/2017 17:28

computer

Another point is that have said yourself you look at this frank person and see a violent thug, well imagine being a woman seeing the same person and being told you have to get changed in the same changing room as them and if you object you’re a bigot.
That’s why women get so upset.

LostInTheTunnelOfGoats · 04/12/2017 17:41

Interesting about Frank Maloney. I've noticed that many of the most vocal transwomen have similar histories of violence, including some that I've met. One of the most aggressive and unpleasant men I've ever met has recently decided he is in fact a woman, and has spent quite some time telling his sister how she's been doing it wrong, punching doors when he is challenged

Nyx1 · 04/12/2017 17:45

Lost "how she's been doing it wrong"

she's been doing "being a woman" wrong?

Sentimentallentil · 04/12/2017 17:48

nyx1

She must have her woman brooch on the wrong way round.

TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 04/12/2017 17:49

I would put money on the majority of TRAs being autogynephiles. And the rest being stealth MRAs.

Ignoring the very very few actual sane TRAs there are. Who do seem to focus on acceptance for trans people as trans people, rather than focusing on taking away the rights of women and transing gay kids.

I know of only one sane TRA, and this is the wonderful Miranda Yardley. Not sure if she would class herself as a transactivist though. Especially given the behavior of the rest of those who class themselves as TRAs.

LostInTheTunnelOfGoats · 04/12/2017 17:50

Oh yes. She's been doing all sorts of things wrong apparently. She doesn't walk as a woman should - he claims that he has the most feminine walk of any woman he knows. She doesn't talk properly either. Women should speak in high falsettos. This all according to the websites and YouTube videos he's been watching on how to pass as a woman.

Of course, when she questioned this he became extremely aggressive. Maybe the YouTube videos haven't got that far yet

Nyx1 · 04/12/2017 17:57

Lost, I hope she goes NC!!

Maryz · 04/12/2017 18:08

I do "woman" wrong.

I haven't worn makeup since about 1983, I don't own any high heels, I've worn a dress twice in the last 30 years. I like maths and can read maps, I don't enjoy "girly" chat and know nothing about frilly underwear and magazines.

Maybe I'm a man? I'll ask dh, see what he thinks.

Nyx1 · 04/12/2017 18:11

Maryz, similar here.

what I wonder about men doing this, what is their ultimate plan in terms of labelling women like us? shudders

Nyx1 · 04/12/2017 18:16

I just looked up about Maloney and surgery

there's been surgery, but nothing relevant it seems. I think in that time, I was assuming surgery didn't mean "getting nostrils made smaller".

StatelessPrincess · 04/12/2017 18:31

A lot of transwomen seem like caricatures. They don't seem to want to actually pass, maybe that's the autogynephilia?. It's like black face or something. Woman face. It's actually offensive. Cultural appropriation is frowned upon these days but to me this basically the same thing.

Maryz · 04/12/2017 18:33

It looks as though shd did go through surgical transition, Nyx which is unusual these days, it seems

SparklyUnicornTractors · 04/12/2017 18:42

Around 70% of these referrals are now females - something we have never seen before except in tiny numbers. Unlike adults, children are transitioning medically and surgically.

So 70% of children's referrals are girls identifying as trans. Unlike adults where the massive majority of adult transitions are MtF.

Children are experiencing and reporting severe gender dysphoria. Unlike adults, where again the massive majority (MtF) wish dysphoria removed from the criteria of trans, don't suffer it and call those trans people among their own number who say its a part of being trans 'truscum' (true scum).

Guidance to schools, services, lobbying, the groups called by Maria Miller to give evidence to the select committee on framing the GRA - all MtF adults. Oddly enough the guidance is overwhelmingly about invading women's spaces, silencing women, and as the lovely L. Madigan recently stated 'separating biology from womanhood'. Transmen are nowhere to be seen anywhere in this picture. Only females are disadvantaged by the GRA.

No one is asking why so many girls are desperate in 2017 UK not to have to grow up to be a woman.

When you look at the above, and add it to #metoo and the massive reports of teenaged girls being groped, harassed on social media and worse (girls actually raped in their school) it's bloody obvious. Who would?

The TRA movement is a political men's rights movement. In many ways its a mens sexual rights movement. This is no way represents generations of transsexuals who just got on with their lives and would like to carry on doing so, and don't agree. Just look at Miranda Yardley's twitter feed to see the venom and violence they expend even on trans people who don't do and say exactly what they're told. Fear is a massive reason this has slid under the wire for so long. There's a word for political groups who intimidate and threaten rape, violence and murder to get what they want.

SparklyUnicornTractors · 04/12/2017 18:44

*Transmen are nowhere to be seen anywhere in this picture. Only females are disadvantaged by the GRA.

And to add to that - no biological females, even transmen, are allowed a voice in it. Maria Miller's white paper for the GRA excluded women.

InternetHoopJumper · 04/12/2017 18:49

"Transwomen" are not women and "cis" is bullshit. I couldn't agree more.

I joined this board, because the majority of posters here at least seem to understand that.

InternetHoopJumper · 04/12/2017 18:51

To me the discussion of "transwomen" is as clear as the discussion of "black" Pete is in my country. Proponents can't seem to understand how racist we are being about it, just like MRA's can't seem to understand how misogynist they are about the defintion of women.

SaturdayNightAtTheMovies · 04/12/2017 18:55

Same here, Maryz.

I do wear dresses, but I don't wear make up. I don't do my nails. I don't spend any time on the trappings of "being a woman". I don't enjoy shopping or buying handbags. I don't wear high heels and own as many tents as I do pairs of shoes. I drink real ale and go the pub on my own...

If being 'feminine' was all it took to be a woman, then a lot of these trans women would tick far more of the 'proper woman' boxes than I ever will.

I also wonder what they would have in store for me because, the bottom line is, for all my lack of femininity and desire to do 'being a woman' properly, I am, and have, one thing that they do not:

I am an actual woman.

Nyx1 · 04/12/2017 19:06

Maryz, thank you, I thought I was going mad!

Sparkly "No one is asking why so many girls are desperate in 2017 UK not to have to grow up to be a woman."

this.

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