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AIBU?

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Original poster

The working mums on school night out

259 replies

TimothyTaylor · 01/12/2017 10:16

I went to our school festive drinks thing last night. A large portion of the evening was spent with a group of mums (who all work outside of the home) trying to "boost my confidence" and "help with my cv" and "help me to explore my power" (wtf). They seemed on a mission to get me back into work. I am a sahm through choice. I sometimes joke about getting a job for a break etc (just a joke) but am very happy in my role at home for now. They made me feel a bit sad and pathetic, as if I was only at home because I had no self-belief or confidence to go back to work. I said firmly but nicely on a couple of occasions that I wasn't working through choice and was happy to do that - but even that elicited "of course but in a couple of years when you're ready you must blah blah blah". Then I got the old "I admire you for sacrificing so much for your kids - being at home all day would do me in". Somehow that always feels like a jibe.

Anyway, it just left me feeling a bit irritated that there's a sense of sahms all being mad jealous of working mums and that we're only at home because we can't get a job!

Maybe they were just pissed. I know no harm was meant...

OP posts:
LipstickHandbagCoffee · 02/12/2017 22:19

I’m not running down caring as an activity plenty make a living out of it
Don’t confuse family tasks with paid caring role it’s not comparable in least
Problem is the conscious & unconscious promotion of caring to women as a thing women do instead of career,or when giving up work .

cantkeepawayforever · 02/12/2017 22:23

So you value childcare as a task if it is paid for, but not if exactly the same thing is done by a parent?

So a nursery nurse / nursery assistant / nanny / childminder is to be valued, but a parent doing exactly the same - or better - caring for and providing early years education for their own child in the family home is of no value?

LipstickHandbagCoffee · 02/12/2017 22:24

Value switch,smells like psychobabble to me. Tell me do you apply that to working men. Men out the house working ft are their children an appendage

You’ve wholesale bought into the anyfink for my kids rhetoric. If a woman isn’t demonstrably giving something up (she isn’t nurturing enough)
Do you apply that equally to men?or just women

Of course I love my kids,and I don’t need to give up work to prove it

Zadig · 02/12/2017 22:25

I do depend on DH for "financials" but he depends on me for the day to day welfare and safety of his children. What matters more?
Neither of us sees the other as less equal.
If I'm a "victim of the patriarchy" then so is he because he's the one who would find it harder to step out.
Money should make life easier, but not be an end goal in itself in order to prove a point.

LipstickHandbagCoffee · 02/12/2017 22:26

Yes women must stick to inane appropriate topics.dont want them getting aerated or owt

cantkeepawayforever · 02/12/2017 22:30

I thought I was clear - I said parents, in the plural. Male or female.

Working outside the home or not is not relevant to my 'children are an appendage' comment. Both parents can work out of the home, and purchase childcare, but still make sure that their primary role, as parents, of bringing up their children as best they can,, is central to their thinking. Which isn't the same as 'anyfink for the kids', because 'the best you can' is as much about saying 'no' as it is about saying 'yes'.

Your values say that the meaure of something is its economic value - you have bought in wholesale to the patriarchy in that sense. The other way of challenging the patriarchy is to value work for its value to society, not its paycheck.

cantkeepawayforever · 02/12/2017 22:34

What would you like me to talk about? Very happy to talk politics, education, big business (which I have worked in), scientific research (which I have also worked in), jazz, ballet?

LipstickHandbagCoffee · 02/12/2017 22:34

Yes I live in a 1st world country and just like all of you, and money is hugely significant
To deny otherwise is daft.i suspect majority on this thread are solid mc with husband who earn money,and aren’t struggling
You see the luxury of being solvent is to muse that’s its only money

LipstickHandbagCoffee · 02/12/2017 22:35

I’m multimodal but have a dislike of made up psycobabble

cantkeepawayforever · 02/12/2017 22:40

Lipstick, I was brought up in a level of church mouse genteel poverty and material deprivation that had not changed since the war, was rare when i was a child and would be unthinkable (in its lack of material basics) for many on MN now.

cantkeepawayforever · 02/12/2017 22:41

What do you mean by 'multimodal'? Could you define its relevance in the context of this thread?

cantkeepawayforever · 02/12/2017 22:43

I don't think I am making up psychobabble.

Is saying 'parents' most important job is to bring their child up' psychobabble, or an obvious statement of fact? In saying that some parents don't fully take on the job of bringing up their children, I am merely making an observation.

LipstickHandbagCoffee · 02/12/2017 22:45

Can’tkeep in which case You see the luxury of being solvent is to muse that’s its only money

cantkeepawayforever · 02/12/2017 22:48

No, actually, I can see that a happy and successful bringing up requires rather less money, past the absolute basics of plain food and basic shelter, than most people think.

Are you solvent? If you have a career that you love, probably so. Are you well-positioned to lecture those who may be significantly less 'rich' - but believe they have enough for the lifestyle they choose - on whether their view is valid or not?

Zadig · 02/12/2017 22:53

Lipstick - I am not even from this country and have known a different kind of poverty, but that's not the point.
You are correct that being a SAHM is a choice that is enabled by a certain DH income or other wealth. If you have to work, it's a non-issue.
I do think it's odd that you seem to see parenting as nothing more than a series of tasks. Your attitude is like, "I help them with homework, do this and that task, what else is there? It's as if you see it as ticking off a job spec - a series of purely functional tasks. Anything else relating to DC is just "childcare" - any interchangeable adult can do it but it's not worth it if your not being PAID to do a JOB TASK.
To me that sounds like you have no identity outside of the capitalist patriarchy you despise.

Tinycitrus · 02/12/2017 23:03

It’s hard to do anything right isn’t it

LipstickHandbagCoffee · 03/12/2017 00:25

Zadig you’re making a huge amount of assumptions about me,to erroneously support your posts
Nothing i have said supports your conclusion.other than your wish to say so
Perhaps you’d like to step back,not personalise or presume.actually engage in a discourse you might find uncomfortable

Gennz18 · 03/12/2017 00:41

Can't be bothered reading the full thread but if you're annoyed by comments like "being at home all day would do me in" how funny do you think your jokes about going to work "for a break" are?

I couldn't care less how people manage their careers or parenting but being told by stay at home parents how lucky I am to "get a break" at work is enraging

Gennz18 · 03/12/2017 00:44

... Which I now see has been extensively canvassed 😳

Original poster
TimothyTaylor · 03/12/2017 00:53

Well if you had been bothered to read the thread you'd know I didn't say that.

No need to be enraged. I'm done. Night all.

OP posts:
Abbylee · 03/12/2017 04:54

I never understand why stay at home mothers feel badly about staying home. Its hard work, we volunteer at school, we have often worked for years before staying home and its our choice. My dc are now young adults. I made the right choice for our family. OUR family. Nobody else knows the dynamic of our family. I do not know anyone else well enough to critique them.

I've fished dc out of the deep end of local pools bc of neglectful nannies and my dc have complained bc our furniture was shabby compared to a friend whose mother worked.

We are all contributing to our families and communities, most of the time, to the best of our capabilities.

There are no "right" answers; just best as we can do at the time. Those women were nasty and stupid. Ignore them, live your life. This life stage flies by and too soon we are sad (i am sad anyway) bc nobody in my house believes in Santa, i see only a blur of my beloved children as they hurry by. nobody that i raised my children with is measurably happier or have dc more exceptional than the others. The smartest dc at school are sometimes stalled in life and the ugly duckling is suddenly a swan.

The only things that i really know about raising dc is that I'm often wrong and the thing that i did right was loving them.

If you raise your dc with the confidence of being loved, apparently they are cognizant of the impact that they have on your life. My ds learned "there are consequences" and dd and ds both, even when angry with us, do not want to hurt or disappoint us and so this keeps them from doing too many dangerous things.
I'm constantly surprised by how dc turn out now that they are young adults. If i could turn back the clock, i would worry less and play with them more. Because, amazingly, just like all of us, our children make their own choices and live their own lives.

Hopefully they respect family values and understand love, respect and kindness. Find something interesting to do for a living and have a satisfying family life. But sahm vs working mothers isn't the issue; its the values and love that we give our dc.

Don't listen to nosey parker people; follow your heart and love your dc. The children who are most messed up are the ones with hyper-critical/controlling parents or the one's whose parents have passed away. My dc have attended funerals of both parents and peers. Cherish dc and life; don't waste your time second guessing bc silly snippy ding-dongs think they know best. Life is difficult and short. Just love and be kind.

Reppin · 03/12/2017 05:03

Perhaps they didn't realise you said 'wanting a job for a break' was a joke. It does sound quite boring being a SAHM for school age children.

Zadig · 03/12/2017 06:29

"I'm not running down caring as an activity. Plenty make a living out if it.
Don't confuse family tasks with paid caring role. It's not comparable in the least"

Lipstick - are you not saying here that looking after children is only "valued" if you are being paid to do it?

Again, you talk about "family tasks" as if housework and looking after the DC are one and the same thing - a set of tasks to "get done" around your real job.

I'm sure I've your posts on other threads where you argue the same thing.

pigeondujour · 03/12/2017 06:48

Honestly, it just sounds like they were really pissed. They will be waking up cringing probably. I've been known to have one too many and talk complete bobbins about anything really, could be feminism or the Beatles or something, though mercifully am yet to utter the words "find your power".

This, though, is really wince-inducing: still, you're a well-educated woman, we are desperate in my industry to get women back to work - you have so much potential. For all she knows you were at her boss's boss's boss's level or whatever before, which would render this a clumsy thing to say at best.

Phuquocdreams · 03/12/2017 07:33

God not another working v sahm thread....just joining in to say that I definitely disagree that the most important job a parent has is raising their children. I'm not sure I agree. For world leaders, surgeons, makers of fantastic art, excellent teachers, nurses, midwives, innovators, many others - I'm not sure I would say their parental role is more important than their work. Bit of a sweeping statement to say otherwise!