The working mums on school night out

[TimothyTaylor]

I went to our school festive drinks thing last night. A large portion of the evening was spent with a group of mums (who all work outside of the home) trying to "boost my confidence" and "help with my cv" and "help me to explore my power" (wtf). They seemed on a mission to get me back into work. I am a sahm through choice. I sometimes joke about getting a job for a break etc (just a joke) but am very happy in my role at home for now. They made me feel a bit sad and pathetic, as if I was only at home because I had no self-belief or confidence to go back to work. I said firmly but nicely on a couple of occasions that I wasn't working through choice and was happy to do that - but even that elicited "of course but in a couple of years when you're ready you must blah blah blah". Then I got the old "I admire you for sacrificing so much for your kids - being at home all day would do me in". Somehow that always feels like a jibe.

Anyway, it just left me feeling a bit irritated that there's a sense of sahms all being mad jealous of working mums and that we're only at home because we can't get a job!

Maybe they were just pissed. I know no harm was meant...

[Zadig]

Well that is what you have said - that my being with the DC during say, the hours of 9-5, is of less "value" because I am not being paid to do it.
But the point is that I really value it in a way that has nothing to do with money or what anyone else thinks.

[Zadig]

And I spent nine years in direct work with children in crises - including in residential settings with children who are sexually abused, self-harming, suicidal or mentally ill. I have also worked with young offenders in secure units and refugees. Despite the stress and often very long shifts, it's a different level of engagement when it's a job. You maintain a professional distance - you have to. I can give more to my own DC than I can give to anyone else and that's why I stayed at home with them. It's got nothing to do with tasks or money.

[cantkeepawayforever]

If you must paraphrase me zadig,try get it right.as opposed to a summation that favours you

Then could you clarify your point, Listick? You have said that paid care is not the same as unpaid care, and have furthermore said that, as you do 'exactly as a SAHP does' as a WOHP, that you see the childcare and parenting that a SAHP does within your working hours as 'nothing'?

[Babbitywabbit]

I don’t agree with some of lipstickhandbagcoffees views. But I assumed what she meant here was the simple fact that paid childcare is different to looking after your own children simply from the perspective that as a paid carer, you are part of the workforce and having to change comply with certain regulations. That’s all, it’s simply a fact, not a value judgement.

Of course there is huge value in raising children to be responsible members of society who make a positive contribution. Children who grow up dysfunctional are a tremendous cost on society, financially as well as in all the other ways. As we all know, good parenting is not a simple case of whether a parent works or not. Therefore there is no intrinsic value beyond the immediate family, in having a SAHP

It’s not disrespectful to SAHP to say that. For families who choose to have a SAHP there is obviously enormous value. I chose to work part time when my children were tiny because I valued being at home with my children. But I wouldn’t claim that it had any value beyond my immediate family

[Zadig]

I have never claimed that as a SAHM, I am of special value to society .

I became disillusioned with social work and I feel that, these days, I have more to give to my own children than I can to other people's.

My family have never claimed benefits. We do not take up state school places, burden the NHS or social services and we pay huge amounts in tax. I grew up in the kind of poverty that is not seen in this country and DH is the son of refugees. We live within our own value system and in the countries we come from the role if the mother is valued. There is no such thing as 8am-6pm nurseries and this kind of thing. People may use relatives help if they can, but that's it.

If we are moving towards a society where it is increasingly common or even the norm for both parents to work crazy hours with babies in day care centres, or where 1 in 3 families are single mum's working every hour to make ends meet, is this progress? As life gets more stressful, this will impact children and society on a wider scale.

[Babbitywabbit]

I don’t see any problem with it being the norm to have 2 working parents.... this is how it’s been for most of history! Also paid maternity leave is longer than any time previously, and shared parental leave is now an option, so I honestly think in terms of provision we are better now than in the past.

Having said that, there will Always be some people who want to stay at home, and even if they were offered the best quality childcare for free, would prefer to not use it. Which is fine- that’s a personal choice

[Babbitywabbit]

Ps zadig- you mention coming from another country and culture where the ‘role of the mother’ is valued. Therefore I guess it’s natural that your view is going to be influenced by that.

Dh and I have always considered ourselves equally capable of childcare and working; therefore it’s been natural to us to split things more equally and neither of us have been sole earner or sole carer

It doesn’t mean one way is better than the other. There are multiple ways to be a good (or bad!) parent

[Zadig]

I think it depends on the definition of "full time" maybe - do people mean 35 hours a week or more like at least 60 which is more the norm where I live. There's a difference between having one parent who can be home by 4/5pm, or situations where both are coming in by 8pm earliest - that's if they're not travelling. I know DC who would be considered "privileged," but only really see their parents at weekends.

[LipstickHandbagCoffee]

Zadig,uk women not working is a relatively new phenomenon.post war in fact.
You asked is it norm to have two working parents, applying uk govt social data - yes it’s the norm to have working parents
We used nursery 8-6 mon to Friday, because that’s our work and travel commitment
My kids are happy,have secure attachment and doing well socially and academically.
Nursery inspection rating excellent Contrary to how some folk on mn describe nursery they have flourished

I don’t feel bad that women have employment or disposable incomes - that’s a good thing in my opinion. I hope it continues