The working mums on school night out

[TimothyTaylor]

I went to our school festive drinks thing last night. A large portion of the evening was spent with a group of mums (who all work outside of the home) trying to "boost my confidence" and "help with my cv" and "help me to explore my power" (wtf). They seemed on a mission to get me back into work. I am a sahm through choice. I sometimes joke about getting a job for a break etc (just a joke) but am very happy in my role at home for now. They made me feel a bit sad and pathetic, as if I was only at home because I had no self-belief or confidence to go back to work. I said firmly but nicely on a couple of occasions that I wasn't working through choice and was happy to do that - but even that elicited "of course but in a couple of years when you're ready you must blah blah blah". Then I got the old "I admire you for sacrificing so much for your kids - being at home all day would do me in". Somehow that always feels like a jibe.

Anyway, it just left me feeling a bit irritated that there's a sense of sahms all being mad jealous of working mums and that we're only at home because we can't get a job!

Maybe they were just pissed. I know no harm was meant...

Sounds like they were drunk and projecting all their insecurities onto your situation.

Just own your choices OP - they’re the right ones for you at this time and place. And ignore the judgement from these women. I personally come down firmly on one side of the WOHM/SAHM debate when it comes to my personal circumstances but I wouldn’t judge anyone who chose the other way. I’d only offer suggestions perhaps if we were very close and they expressed being unhappy with their choice.

Pretty sure they also raise their kids but maybe they were sick of smug rubbish like your comment cardinalcat

I work full time in a very stressful job and do all the things that a SAHM does with 40+ less hours a week to do it (I have 5 kids), so if someone said to me, jokingly, that they want to get a job for a break, I'd want to walk for the fucking door.

Lipstick handbag coffee most of the parents at our school gate picking up their kids also work.

They were probably just making conversation. I have never joined in school mums nights out. Well once and had to endure lenghty conversations about bathroom tiles.

I work full time in a very stressful job and do all the things that a SAHM does

Sorry but no, you dont, not of you have pre-schoolers whicjbis the case with most SAHM. You don't love or care for your children any less but it's a matter of scale. Time doesn't stand still whilst you're at work. Just having children in the house makes a mountain more mess then of course you have to entertain them which creates even more mess. People seem to forget that there's effort involved in caring for children all day.

I work ft.i do all the things sahm does,I simply do it in eve and weekend
Don’t have the luxury of time to faff about at home
But do the same tasks,just can’t stretch it out all day,as I’m at work

So when I'm at home entertaining my kids your somehow remotely looking after them from work?

Read my post again s-l-o-w-l-y so you understand.bit were I say evening & weekend
Did you get that?i explicitly said eve& weekends.and no I don’t strech it out to all day

If you're only looking after your children in the evening and weekends you aren't doing everything I do because I'm also looking after my children during the day. I don't understand how you can grasp that.
Obviously your time is a full as mine as you're out working not sitting around all day but the hours you spend on childcare are fewer than I do, hence you don't do everything I do and work.

As I said,read my post again s-l-o-w-l-y so you understand.bit were I say evening & weekend
Food prep,homework,trips,family etc we do this eve & weekend.
Tasks others fill day doing.and some folk all their kids are at school so it’s not all day

Maybe you should read my post slowly (patronising much?) And notice where I mentioned only meaning parents of preschool children.

You must be pretty miffed at having to pay someone for child care huh? Seeing as they do nothing all day?

But it is possible to do some household task whilst looking after preschool children which someone working full time cannot do the day. Laundry, shopping, some cleaning, tidying, cooking etc can be done whilst looking after children. On my working days, those tasks are done after work in the evenings.

That's still not "everything though"

I give up. I've always viewed working mothers as my equals. As women doing what's best for their families. It seems a few women on here prefer to feel superior though.

Lipstick,

That's a really interesting perspective, because what you are saying is that looking after children ISN'T what a SAHM does. That what really matters is the 'household' things that are peripheral, and that the central thing, the childcaere, is irrelevant.

i think that is odd. Of course, both a SAHM and a WOHP both, unless they chose to have a cleaner etc, alongside their partners, do the household tasks. A SAHM will tend to do more, because their house is also where all childcare takes place, so more mess is made.

However, the key difference between the two is the childcare. A SAHP to pre-schoolers, or in school holidays, does childcare all day, every day. A WOHP to pre-schoolers or in school holidays must subcontract that work to someone else, whether that be nursery, childmninder or relative.

So while i agree that the two groups may well do similar 'other houseold tasks', the central issue of childcare is where the two roles differ, and while both choices are entirely valid, one IS different from the other.

Somebody who says 'I as a WOHP do exactly the same as a SAHP' must see childcare as 'nothing', because they obviously don't do the same childcare, for pre-schoolers and school children in the holidays, as a SAHP will.

What I’m trying to say is that childcare can include doing some of the household tasks at the sameness time. I managed to change a bed, do a load of washing, clean and tidy the kitchen, make meals, etc all whilst doing childcare. My daughter will often help with tasks. On working days, these things are done after the working day (also whilst doing childcare) but it tends to be more rushed and fraught as we are all much more tired, hungry etc after work/after school club/nursery.

I fucking hate these threads. You always, always get some working mothers insisting they do everything a SAHP does, which is literally impossible, or a SAHM insisting that their kids would suffer if they worked, which is not that likely in most ways, and the absolute reverse of the truth in several others.

We all make choices around childcare and they all have significant costs and benefits to the kids, to us, to our partners and to society. Both options are valid, both options unfairly stigmatised, and in ALL OF THAT it's so because we live in a society that is structurally sexist. So reading thread after thread in which a bunch of women snipe at one another over a ridiculous, invented, BULLSHIT divide that just should not exist at all is depressing beyond belief.

Childcare is work. It has value. Lots of it. Paid employment is also work. It has value. Lots of it. Most kids would rather they were cared for at home, by a parent, but most kids would also rather they didn't live one step from a workless household, and they'd also rather enjoy the better lifestyle that a WOTH parent can offer. And that's without the issue that you set a great example of working women to your kids, so they accept women are equal in the workplace.

I'm a SAHP right now and we don't have many options. It's not my preference at this point but it is what it is. That doesn't mean my work lacks value, but I do wish my kids didn't see Daddy as the one trotting to work while Mummy wipes tables, arses and floors.

I'm sure some families have the perfect solution, but I think most of us muddle through, somehow, with a lot of guilt and anxiety about the way either choice feels like you let someone, or most of them, down. It's depressing as all getout seeing the hostility, defensiveness and attacks made here. Stop licking the boots of a patriarchal society and start supporting other women's choices - surely that's the genuinely empowered and wise step in this mess? /rant over.

Maybe other women should enact prescribed roles in patriarchal society and celebrate giving up career
Fetishisisation of one male wage,and unwaged woman at home as its it’s the ideal
The demonisation of working women along the lines of why have kids if you let someons else raise them
women by giving things and prioritising male career that reinforces patriarchy

Maybe other women should not enact prescribed roles in patriarchal society and celebrate giving up career
Fetishisisation of one male wage,and unwaged woman at home as its it’s the ideal
The demonisation of working women along the lines of why have kids if you let someons else raise them
women by giving things and prioritising male career that reinforces patriarchy

The belittling of traditional female labour is disgustingly misogynist. And dismissing and jeering at women performing it is equally so. The reality is that you cannot even bring yourself to acknowledge that SAHM do, in fact, do things with and for their children that a WOTH parent cannot. This is such a fundamental flaw in your position that I can't but assume a basic unease underpins it. That unease should not be there; you absolutely do provide things for your children, materially and psychologically, that I can't and don't as a SAHP. But I provide things you can't and don't, too. That's simple fact.

The demonisation of working women along the lines of why have kids if you let someons else raise them

That's an absolute disgrace, as I have said repeatedly. There are clear advantages to children when both parents work. But there are also clear disadvantages. There is no right and perfect solution. Dogmatically insisting your choice is the only correct one for all other women is ridiculous, whichever choice it may be. You don't know their circumstances, you don't know the reasons, you don't know a damn thing about them. You only know why your choice is right for you.

Feel for you op. I get fed up when people go on about work. There is more to life then work!! Life is too short. Have a cup of tea and watch homes under the hammer!!

I'd have fucked off at 'find your power'

I’m taking no stronger a position than anyone else,and others will be diametrically opposed
That’s fine.i don’t expect anyone to moderate their opinion to ameliorate me
Conversely, I don’t expect to be told posting my opinion is dogmatic
We will all dogmatically express a POV on mn.thats the point

Maybe if it’s an uncomfortable POV explore that, as opppsed to hoping it goes away