Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU that not much is talked about NDE and it's all hush hush but probably many more people believe it than want to admit to?

244 replies

Ruabelieber · 30/11/2017 10:58

Probably for fear of being thought of as nuts!
Got this article via a friend and the more I hear / read the more I believe it..
But if I was to admit this in RL people would think I am bonkers?

www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2016/04/dying-near-death-experiences/

OP posts:
Ruabelieber · 30/11/2017 14:48

Bitoutofpractice:

Yes - I would like a bit of variety and hear also from somebody who has had some NDE experience or somebody who believes...

Anyway ... this thread is fun! I love when people get very involved over the internet....You all seem to really care to state what you believe... with no tangible return... it's hearth warming

OP posts:
Mummyoflittledragon · 30/11/2017 14:50

Amy
Idk. It’s just how I feel. I don’t expect you to feel of believe the same things as me. This is a discussion. Rather like I don’t believe Jesus is the son of God in biblical terms when others do. No one can prove or disprove this either.

BitOutOfPractice · 30/11/2017 14:52

By the way Ruabelier, and I speak as a historian (though I realise qualifications / knowledge mean nothing to you) you were absolutely 100% wrong about Columbus and the flat earth thing. And you were very rude to tiny telling her she was rewriting history. She wasn't, you were.

I'd suggest that you'd get taken more seriously on this thread if you checked your facts before you spout them

So, give us some facts about NDE then.

Somethingfantastic89 · 30/11/2017 14:54

Amy
There are studies on NDE, published in peer reviewed journals.
This is one example
www.southampton.ac.uk/news/2014/10/07-worlds-largest-near-death-experiences-study.page

And one of the researchers/doctors concludes:
“(...) it has often been assumed that experiences in relation to death are likely hallucinations or illusions, occurring either before the heart stops or after the heart has been successfully restarted, but not an experience corresponding with ‘real’ events when the heart isn’t beating. In this case, consciousness and awareness appeared to occur during a three-minute period when there was no heartbeat. This is paradoxical, since the brain typically ceases functioning within 20-30 seconds of the heart stopping and doesn’t resume again until the heart has been restarted. Furthermore, the detailed recollections of visual awareness in this case were consistent with verified events.

“Thus, while it was not possible to absolutely prove the reality or meaning of patients’ experiences and claims of awareness, (due to the very low incidence (2 per cent) of explicit recall of visual awareness or so called OBE’s), it was impossible to disclaim them either and more work is needed in this area. Clearly, the recalled experience surrounding death now merits further genuine investigation without prejudice.”

Also, it says NDE isn't always a blissful experience (so not sure that it's always an attempt to comfort oneself against the fear of death - it can be a manifestation of beliefs)

I'm NOT saying this is proof of afterlife. We're still exploring the experience of death.

BitOutOfPractice · 30/11/2017 14:54

mummyoflittkedragon I have no idea why you'd think your bus experience was woo. In your post alone you give at least two possible explanations (illness, past trauma). I can't imagine what's woo about it at all

AmySueGina · 30/11/2017 14:56

Mummy I know it's a discussion, that's why I asked you. I'm just fascinated that you say you believe there's a soul but you (and I don't mean you to single you out, I mean people who share your beliefs- the royal you!) don't offer any kind of explanation or context for that. Your (again, royal you!) only explanation is that you believe it. But that's not an explanation or discussion at all.

To me, that's shutting down debate. It's like "well I believe it so there". That's not a discussion. A discussion is about you saying where in the body you think the soul is, what it's function is, how it interacts with the brain etc. Then I (or someone) would tell you why they thought you were wrong. Then you could say why you thought you were right. That's a discussion. We might all go away with our opinions but at least there's a debate about it rather than just "I believe this, you don't have to so let's leave it there"

Ruabelieber · 30/11/2017 15:04

Somethingfantastic:
I haven't experienced NDE personally but my mum has.
I refer to something in your link:

In some cases of cardiac arrest, memories of visual awareness compatible with so called out-of-body experiences may correspond with actual events.

This!
My mum said that she had seen my nephew who is 4 years old in the room dressed with a green jumper.
However my nephew was not allowed in the room as she was hallucinating and had been left with his older sister in the waiting room and was wearing a green jumper!
These are the things the puzzle me

OP posts:
ConfusedLivingDoll · 30/11/2017 15:13

I suggest you look at the books on studies on these phenomena. The university course books on parapsychology will be ideal. I'm sure there are many more since I was doing the course around 2007, but the basic facts remain largely the same. Give me a minute, and I'll have a look at my book shelf.

Sheitgeist · 30/11/2017 15:15

AIBU that not much is talked about NDE and it's all hush hush but probably many more people believe it than want to admit to?

It's not much talked about by whom? People in general? Why do you think that is?
There are many threads on here about woo. There are many people who believe in healing crystals, auras, angels, mediums, ghosts, seances and other sorts of crap alternative theories. And sadly they're all too ready to talk about it and admit to a belief in it.

I suspect that NDE is perhaps not much talked about (if indeed it isn't) because most people don't believe that NDEs are anything other than the hallucinations of a dying brain. It really has been fairly well scientifically explained.

Ceto · 30/11/2017 15:16

We do need to remember that there is a lot that was considered crazy before science caught up with it - the existence of germs for example.
So we should keep an open mind. We are not at a point in our evolution/civilisation where we can say we know it all now and can decide what is woo and what is not.

That really is not a valid comparison. Germ theory was first propounded in the 16th century but was largely discounted because most physicians held to the miasma theory. There was evidence for it from a fairly early stage by virtue of the fact that micro-organisms could be detected using microscopes. However, it was increasing in credibility by the end of the 19th century, not least because of the success of things like smallpox vaccinations and the work of people like Semmelweiss, and was not ridiculed amongst credible scientists.
Ultimately it was accepted as proved as more and more hard evidence came to light.

By contrast, the belief in ghosts, woo, NDE etc has been around from several centuries before the 16th century but despite many, many efforts to prove their existence, no-one has ever come up with anything approaching proof.

To say that there is a direct correlation involves basic logical favour. Essentially you are saying:

  1. There are some things that at one point were not believed but which eventually were proved to be true.
  2. X is a thing which is not believed.
  3. Therefore X will be proved to be true.

It just doesn't work. There simply are some things that are mythical, and which it is reasonable to believe will remain mythical, simply because so many people have been trying so hard and so long to prove them but have not succeeded.

ConfusedLivingDoll · 30/11/2017 15:17

Here are some non-dry ones. They also address, OBEs and previous life phenomena amongst other things.

Irwin, Harvey J. : An Introduction to Parapsychology

Lester, David: Is there life after death?

Fontana, David: Is there an afterlife?

Ceto · 30/11/2017 15:20

I managed to get off the bus and my vision literally went black.

I've had that. Either I faint or I lie down, the blood flow returns to my brain, and my vision comes back.

Highlight775 · 30/11/2017 15:22

Confused

The problem there is that parapsychology is a load of nonsense.

It's a pseudoscience on the same level as spirit healing and reiki. Using it as evidence of NDE does your case no favours.

Ceto · 30/11/2017 15:22

My mum said that she had seen my nephew who is 4 years old in the room dressed with a green jumper. However my nephew was not allowed in the room as she was hallucinating and had been left with his older sister in the waiting room and was wearing a green jumper!

She was hallucinating, she had seen your nephew or other children in green, she hallucinated that she saw him in the room. Not particularly puzzling, really.

ConfusedLivingDoll · 30/11/2017 15:23

It's interesting and captures our imagination, but Occam's Razor works here, as in most cases. To this day there is no solid proof of any parapsychological phenomena being real. I'm inclined to think that our physical bodies, minds and the physical world are capable of much more awe inspiring phenomena than anyone could (at the moment, or ever) grasp.

tinysparklyshoes · 30/11/2017 15:24

I didn't want to be dragged into this as you tiny seems to have a one sided view of things in general ... however... see link... there was a time when piplulations thought the earth was flat. Some "new" theories surfaced that it must be round and then when it was confirmed they knew.

I have a one sided view of proven facts, yes. The right one!

You're still completely wrong. Why are you so closed minded about admitting it?

ConfusedLivingDoll · 30/11/2017 15:26

I'm sorry? I'm not talking about the ghost hunting type parapsychology. Universities do studies into many phenomena, and have so far linked them to known biology, mental processes and physics. You know the James Randi kind of parapsychology? Debunking? That's what parapsychologists at unis (Like the Koestler unit in Edinburgh University) do.

tinysparklyshoes · 30/11/2017 15:30

he university course books on parapsychology will be ideal. I'm sure there are many more since I was doing the course around 2007, but the basic facts remain largely the same. Give me a minute, and I'll have a look at my book shelf

Parapsychology is not a recognised accredited course by anyone. The only "courses" available are distance learning diplomas by paper mill colleges. It's not an actual discipline.

tinysparklyshoes · 30/11/2017 15:31

Modules in actual degrees are different, of course, and usually more about studying why people believe in such things and debunking it.

Ceto · 30/11/2017 15:31

OP, why not just accept that what you said about Columbus was incorrect, and that you were wrong to say tiny was rewriting history when she gave the correct facts?

ConfusedLivingDoll · 30/11/2017 15:34

It was a module in my psychology degree, yes, as I previously mentioned. I found it fascinating.

strugglingtodomybest · 30/11/2017 15:34

How can you not think you've been rude OP?

You said: "Well Colombus was called crazy because he thought the world was round"

Tiny said: "No he wasn't. Everyone knew the world was round a thousand years and more before Columbus. What are you talking about?"

and then you said: "Haha good on you tiny for rewriting history/ geography!"

Then, when it's been pointed out to you by multiple posters that you were in fact wrong, you have refused to apologise.

I'm sorry, but for that reason alone I can't take you seriously. Facts appear to mean nothing to you. Which is fine, it's obviously no skin off my nose, but you might like to be a bit more aware of how you're coming across.

berliozwooler · 30/11/2017 15:35

more about studying why people believe in such things and debunking it

Which is what Confused said upthread.

OneFlewOverTheDodosNest · 30/11/2017 15:36

I technically died and had the whole light / memories experience but I don't think that it was proof of life after death any more than I believe that the hallucinations I had in hospital for the following 2 weeks were ghosts. It's just your brain going funny for me, although I'm sure some people find it reassuring.

Highlight775 · 30/11/2017 15:36

Confused

Having an organisation in a university doesn't make it a legitimate science. It's a load of codswallop perpetuated by people with an agenda to take advantage of the gullible.

Debunking these kind of activities is legitimate activity but those who do it aren't practicing parapsychology. That's like claiming the atheists who debunk religious claims are priests.

Swipe left for the next trending thread