AIBU that not much is talked about NDE and it's all hush hush but probably many more people believe it than want to admit to?

[Ruabelieber]

Probably for fear of being thought of as nuts!
Got this article via a friend and the more I hear / read the more I believe it..
But if I was to admit this in RL people would think I am bonkers?

www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2016/04/dying-near-death-experiences/

Tiny That's not a problem, that's how it should be!
You (and me) can only say that's how it is. As for how it should be... you need to allow for personal and cultural differences. And history. And evolution. And things that we haven't experienced/understood yet. imo, of course.

Suburban If they couldn’t explain why they didn’t believe in gravity and had no rational alternative theory for why things fall back down to earth, then yes, I would think they were strange or irrational
Well exactly what I was trying to say: during the enlightenment (mostly) we decided that rationality is the best root to knowledge. That's fine. But that itself creates a confusion (and a loop): "only rationality leads to knowledge" is different from "only knowledge that is rational is acceptable".

I'm not saying there is an afterlife, just that saying "we don't know (yet)" is perfectly acceptable and sometimes that's where we need to stop. Also, the explanation that neurosciences offer about NDE is always offered as "what we know about it based on what we know about the brain so far". I think we could try at least a bit of humility like the scientists who have actually done the research.

Really simple but also incredibly clever.

Bloody amazing isn’t it? Which is why the ‘flat Earth’ myth is even more ridiculous, had all these brilliant minds figuring out our planet, continents and discovering others in our solar system hundreds of years ago, yet we’re meant to believe the rest of society scoffed and said ‘nah mate, obviously we’re floating around like a giant cream cracker covered in water’. Yeah, that sounds reasonable.

You (and me) can only say that's how it is. As for how it should be... you need to allow for personal and cultural differences. And history. And evolution. And things that we haven't experienced/understood yet. imo, of course

No I don't. Facts and proof are one thing, and beliefs and illogical woo is another. I don't have to allow for anything, I'm a scientist!

Anyway, the earth isn't round.

Its an oblate spheroid.

It's a shame you are so literal-minded, tiny.

On the contrary, if you're really a scientist, you can understand why you need to allow for all those differences and relativity even in knowledge.
Science is mostly concerned with how things are, not how they should be mainly because "how it should be" is something that you can never prove through scientific process.

Somethingfantastic89

That's fine. But that itself creates a confusion (and a loop): "only rationality leads to knowledge" is different from "only knowledge that is rational is acceptable".

What are you blathering on about? the definition of 'Rational' is 'in accordance with reason or logic'.

If knowledge isn't rational then by definition it isn't reliable.

'We don't know' is a completely acceptable answer in some cases, but in this case, there is literally no evidence to support any other position.

It's a shame you are so literal-minded, tiny.

It’s not being ‘literal’, most things aren’t black and white, and any scientists worth their salt will accept that new evidence can absolutely change what we thought of as ‘fact’ previously.

However there’s also no point in pondering the endless ‘what ifs’ without any conclusion either. If current scientific and logical knowledge points to NDEs being our brains projecting images, rather than an actual afterlife, that is realistically the closest thing to ‘fact’ in the matter.

That of course shouldn’t mean you can’t have a personal belief to the contrary, however if you want it to be taken as seriously as the scientific side, it’s up to the person with the ‘belief’ to show solid evidence of their own hypothesis. We can all have our ‘beliefs’, however no one is under any obligation to see them as realistic, unless the evidence is there.

It’s not being ‘literal’, most things aren’t black and white, and any scientists worth their salt will accept that new evidence can absolutely change what we thought of as ‘fact’ previously

Yes, of course, the key word there being EVIDENCE, not belief.

I'm not literal, I'm logical. More people should try it!

Tiny- you don't believe in fairies / NDE and other stuff but then you believe that people owe you apologies for perceived offence and that ignore you when actually I am a busy person so responding to you didn't happen.
It goes to show your mind is quite limited and that you only see your own reality.

Try to see other people perspectives. Your view of the reality MIGHT NOT be the only one.

There has been a time when people thought that the world was flat. And all the Ines saying it was not flat were sneered at... I am not saying that people were not making up "modern and absurd" theories for those days that the world was round and even calculating circumpherences and likes. But until it was proven scientifically they were called crazy and visionaries in a negative sense.

A bit like now...
Somebody has made a theory about NDE but you are calling them crazy 😬 but in 3000 years they might say.... you know that what we just discovered about after life? Well there were already theories about it in 2014 circa!

Highlight
No + that's not what I meant. Read again/think again etc.

Edmund
Yes agreed.

Are you seriously saying MY mind is lacking when you thought that Columbus discovered the world was not flat?

Get a hold of yourself! Are you going to retract your statement that I was rewriting history or not?

I read a really interesting book some years ago, where a group of scientists tried to evaluate NDEs in a provable or disprovable way. The author was really cynical, but was curious when people having had a NDE reported information that wasn't possible. IIRC they put things on top of the cupboards in a resus room that couldn't be seen from below, and some patients could describe them accurately. Others described conversations they had heard after they were clinically dead. I guess these are similar to the whole "hearing is the last sense to go" theory, but these patients weren't just fainted or unconscious, they were without cardiac output or respiratory effort.

Interesting.

And anyway Tiny... you made your point... now let the others have their say too.
You know that we don't need to shut down the thread just because you have given your opinion.
Opinion that highly regard by the way, but there is no need to attack people who think differently from you.

Have a

The literal minded comment was in response to your comment on Something's post, which I thought unfair.

I don't think you have really understood the nuance of the argument, tiny.

Ruabelieber

Try to see other people perspectives. Your view of the reality MIGHT NOT be the only one.

True but based on the best evidence we have, Tiny is correct.

A lot of things MIGHT be possible, but most rational people look at the actual likelihoods of things being right or wrong before they just choose to believe something.

There has been a time when people thought that the world was flat.

When? What ‘people’? A couple or the entire population of that era? I mean a few people believe the Earth is flat now, we know they’re just dim idiots who wouldn’t believe a fact if it danced naked in front of them. People weren’t that stupid hundreds of years ago either (mostly).

So is that a no?

So, to sum up, you have no regard at all for facts, science, logic, evidence or proof, you just want to chat about what you personally believe and you decide that based on nothing at all?

And when you are wrong and are shown to be wrong you will deny it and be rude to those pointing it out to you?

There is a section for woo, take it there if you don't want posters to actually talk some sense.

This is quite interesting:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_flat_Earth

It was quite interesting when I and another poster both linked to it upthread as well.

Tiny, the OP can post where she likes. AIBU is for any topic. If you don't like it you could also bugger off elsewhere or just not post on and shit up another thread with a beligerent, arrogant manner of posting.

It's interesting what you say Highlight.

There was a very good fictional book I wish I remember the title, and plot was based in 3400 AD where all humans where asleep artificially in pods connected to machines controlling their brain activities and they only imagined their lives but they were not aware of it. There is a lot of fictional books like that. Virtual reality.

I have personally seen my mum go through NDE and she could people that are dead and she was talking to them.

We were told she was hallucinating by the doctors and that most old people do before they die. But she survived and to this days she still thinks it all happened. It was real to her brain and to her. And she is a very sharp no non sense lady.

So... Her reality in this case was different from what o was seeing but for her it was still happening.

When she's telling me not to post I can certainly respond to her in a similar vein.
And did you mean to be so rude?

Tiny
You sound like fun!

We were told she was hallucinating by the doctors and that most old people do before they die. But she survived and to this days she still thinks it all happened. It was real to her brain and to her. And she is a very sharp no non sense lady

Hallucinations can be incredibly real feeling. They still aren't actually real though. You shouldn't encourage people to believe in their hallucinations though, its unethical and unhelpful.