To think the referendum results would have been different if the costs had been known?

[TammySwansonTwo]

I mean, almost £60bn. Really? Who would actually have supported this? Apparently we have no money, the cupboards are bare, there's no magic money tree... oh, except the money for the DUP, and this.

And who's going to pay the price for this? Not the richest, that's for sure. More economy-crushing cuts coming our way!

Yes absolutely. It's no coincidence that the countries with the lowest standard of living are also the countries where women have very few rights.

On an individual level it's impossible not to feel for anyone who is desperate enough to leave everything they know to move. But from a purely practical level, there has to be a line. Europe simply cannot accommodate an entire continent. And the countries that are seeing the most people leave will have no chance of progress if they lose their brightest and best.

Meanwhile the people smugglers continue to rake it in because all they have to do is overload a shitty boat and wait for the poor souls on board to be rescued.

Or not.

As I said upthread its funny how all the ones who are most pro-EU and think that Brexiters are the ones dreaming of Empire are also the people who are most in favour of careering around the world fixing peoples problems.

How is dreaming of a Singapore style Brexit not dreaming of Empire?

The line between refugee's and economic migrants is very hard to define though. Is there a difference really between someone fleeing war and someone fleeing drought or just general miserable if not absolute poverty ?.

MF We can pay the dues, but we will require our assets to be returned, or taken off the 'dues' (no mention of any dues in A50 as has already been stated).

I don't think that Canada is bound by the ECJ, nor is the US. I can't think of any non EU/EEA country that allows the ECJ jurisdiction over EU citizens living in their territory.

As I said upthread its funny how all the ones who are most pro-EU and think that Brexiters are the ones dreaming of Empire are also the people who are most in favour of careering around the world fixing peoples problems.

So the "Stop the War" marches were warm up for "We love leave ?"

Well that does depend on which report you read. I don't believe they are all from war torn countries, no. There's a lot of stories put about the promised land of Europe - often pushed by the people smugglers of course! - and many of these people come from all over. I think there are many economic migrants in the mix.

As I said, individually I totally understand that. Why on earth wouldn't you want to move somewhere that you had much better prospects? But there's only so many people that Europe can absorb. Which is why I would far rather see money pumped into the economies of those countries to try and spread the wealth rather than keeping it all in one place and having everyone piling on top of it.

I don't think that Canada is bound by the ECJ, nor is the US.

Two counties whose own citizens rights are backstopped by a written constitution.

Give me a UK written constitution as a Brexit by product (which won't happen by the way) and and I might start to rethink.

I would also point out that to the best of my knowledge there is no other trading block which requires of freedom. NAFTA doesn't.

I decided to vote leave before all the campaigning started and still would now.

I would also point out that to the best of my knowledge there is no other trading block which requires of freedom. NAFTA doesn't.

Let join that then. Job done.

Poll for anyone interested:
@MartinSLewis
Today's twitter poll: Had you known, at the time of the Brexit vote, the UK'd end up paying up to €50bn to leave EU, and all the other shenanigans, how would you have voted? (compared to what you did vote)
twitter.com/MartinSLewis/status/935794627575255040

Results so far from 23 000 votes:

64%Remain (I voted remain)
03%Leave (I voted remain)
10%Remain (I voted leave)
23%Leave (I voted leave)

I'm not on Twatter.

I'm not on twitter although its good to see those Putin Bots were clearly wasting their time.

You can still read it though vitalogy

You can still read it though vitalogy I know but I couldn't vote in it. Wonder what the demographic of Twatter and the Martin Lewis website are.

Twitter Demographics

Total number of Twitter users in UK is 13 million.
37% of Twitter users are between ages of 18 and 29, 25% users are 30-49 years old.
54% of Twitter users earn more than $50,000 a year at least.

Rebecca Sadly the info you provided was made public after the EU regs were withdrawn. There is a great difference between standards and packaging regs, designed to make it cheaper to ship produce around the world, regardless of the costs involved in growing to that order.

Seriously, you do know about the amount of food being wasted every day across the EU, the mind numbing tonnage of fish thrown back due to a quota system that is impossible to adhere to (fish being unruly fuckers that swim where they want to). Put down the KoolAid dear!

Argh too many Rebeccas #confused #bananas #allaboutmemememe !

Sorry vitalogy i see what you mean

I dont do twitter either

Sometimes i think thats really really good

Yet you still believe in Euromyths about straight bananas and cucumbers. erm..... it wasn't a myth... Google is your friend tanith

It does carry some semantics but basically the EU DID try to define the correct amount of bendiness and minimum length in bananas and cucumbers... many Spanish cucumber farmers took out huge loans to buy the equipment needed to ensure the minimum cure requirements for a Class 1 cucumber. Apparently because buying by weight simply isn't good enough. Uniformity is king!

This has led directly to the Ugly Fruit campaigns... uniformity in natural produce is wasteful!!

Is banana sovereignty worth £100b?

Yes I'm sure they would be different, but confirmation bias, accentuated by group think and the human tendency to always throw good money after bad means that only the depressive realists are going to admit that now.

Sometimes i think thats really really good I agree. It'd take away from my Mumsnet time too!