To think the referendum results would have been different if the costs had been known?

[TammySwansonTwo]

I mean, almost £60bn. Really? Who would actually have supported this? Apparently we have no money, the cupboards are bare, there's no magic money tree... oh, except the money for the DUP, and this.

And who's going to pay the price for this? Not the richest, that's for sure. More economy-crushing cuts coming our way!

Sadly I think its far to late for that now. The migrants know that once they get to Europe they'll be able to stay there because our Government's are too cowardly to stop them getting here or return them once they land.

lessworriedaboutthecat

No but I do want you to show how they equate to the end of our society? How did you describe it, 'The Balkanisation of Europe?"

You do know that we are living in the safest period in all of recorded human history? That's a statistical fact.

Yes we have some issues with immigration and integration but for goodness sake, the sky is definitely not falling in!

Seriously, stop reading the Daily Express.

^ This. I am seething at the price of the same block of butter that was £1.6 yesterday in Morrisons.
But we have got our country back so hey ho.hmm

Butter prices have increased 92% in France this year, no doubt that is also due to Brexit?

@highlight775 I've never read either the Express or the mail in my life and the only time I've seen Breibart is when someone has posted a link to it on here.
At the end of the day nothing would make me happier than to be proven wrong. Sadly deep in my heart I don't think I will be though.

Lessworriedaboutthecat

So where were you going to get all the stories you said you were going to link me to from if not The Express, The Mail and the other papers that like to be inflammatory about refugees, Islam etc?

Whenever people say things like 'I don't read the mail/express etc', I always want to know where they get their hyperbole from then? It's certainly not warranted from the normal, regular reporting that shows some areas of concern, but certainly not "the end of our civilisation".

Can you see how that now looks like your back-pedalling after being challenged?

ok Highlight775
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-40010124

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35250903

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17456541

I can go on.

What about your inadequate analysis of post-War population movements, Less? Where did you get that from?

Both Wars did happen outside of Europe, you know. The consequences for countries like India and Burma were huge, and are still being felt to this day from the Middle East through Asia.

The chances are that Brexit will increase immigration from outside the EU and won't restrict immigration by faith.

Lessworriedaboutthecat

Your examples don't exactly point towards 'the end of our civilisation' though does it?

As I have said from the outset, I'm not denying there are issues, but the fact remains we live in the safest period of human existence in recorded history.

@Redtoothbrush we should try and limit non EU immigration post brexit and faith should be on of the factors.
@lineysrunner I am aware that both wars also took place outside Europe however there's nothing we can do about the problems in India and Burma or indeed the Middle East. Many although not all of the Middle Easts problems were caused by the West interference in the region. Strangely the politicians most in favour of the EU are also the ones most in favour of that interference all though for some reasons Brexiters are the ones accused of nostalgia for Empire.

Lessworriedaboutthecat

Faith should be a factor in immigration figures?

Can you explain that?

How would it work? Who would we limit? On what grounds?

It's easy to make a sweeping statement like that without talking about the details of what would be an inherently discriminatory and illegal practice.

@motheroffourdragons "So what do we do with the refugees then? Just leave them to suffer? Not offer a hand of friendship?"

Exactly that. Europe should have secured its borders and used every naval vessel at its disposable to intercept the refugee vessels and tow them back to their point of origin. That would have been true European co-operation.
.

we should try and limit non EU immigration post brexit and faith should be on of the factors.

LOOK ZOMBIES

You're backtracking, Less, on your original comment of current movements of people being on a scale not seen since the end of the Roman Empire (I'm presuming you mean the Western Empire).

The government could have restricted non-EU immigration before. But they found it more convenient to blame the EU for rising immigration and all the problems attributed to it. Wonder who they'll blame down the line when they can't make the EU the scapegoat anymore?

Wonder who they'll blame down the line when they can't make the EU the scapegoat anymore?

History suggests the feckless working classes.

I would issue Visa's on the basis of the needs of the economy and how easy it would be for the immigrant to be assimilated. I would not be allowing large number of unskilled, non English speaking immigrants from Muslim countries. I would also be changing the law so that it was no longer illegal or discriminatory to do that. I think I'd win an election on that platform don't you ?

Lessworriedaboutthecat

No and it's slightly tragic that you think you would. Your position is far more extreme than UKIP and they didn't do so well at the ballot box. Your king Nigel has failed to get elected 7 times.

Why are you so obsessed with muslims? You do realise that the percentage of terrorist acts committed by Muslims since 2010 is a tiny proportion of terrorism in Europe and in America?

www.thedailybeast.com/are-all-terrorists-muslims-its-not-even-close

I ask the leavers what they think about the report that was done for the government in the economic effects of brexit which David Davis is so keen to keep under wraps?
I am not being facetious, I genuinely want to know how they reconcile the content of that report with their view that we will be better off out.

And on another note, blaming the EU for 'too much' immigration is ( yet another) case of the British government blaming the EU for their failings.
This habit is why it was then so difficult to explain to the electorate all the benefits of being a member.

On the matter of immigration from the eastern European newer members, when those countries first joined all existing member countries had the option to cap the number of people coming from the new ones for a number of years. Almost all of the other countries did this, the UK chose not to... Not something we should be blaming the eu for. There are many more...

Another means of cross border co-operation to go with Brexit. This will really help the tracking of terrorists and immigration of undesirables won't it.

Every day something else gone. The costs of Brexit are not solely financial.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-europol-michel-barnier-speech-kicked-out-european-police-cooperation-eu-benefits-amber-rudd-a8082081.html

I've never voted UKIP. If TM or indeed a labour leader who cared about their own people had put that in their manifesto they would win by a country mile.