To think the referendum results would have been different if the costs had been known?

[TammySwansonTwo]

I mean, almost £60bn. Really? Who would actually have supported this? Apparently we have no money, the cupboards are bare, there's no magic money tree... oh, except the money for the DUP, and this.

And who's going to pay the price for this? Not the richest, that's for sure. More economy-crushing cuts coming our way!

I don't think it's for the same reasons as lessworried but I actually agree with this post of theirs:

"So what do we do with the refugees then? Just leave them to suffer? Not offer a hand of friendship?" Exactly that. Europe should have secured its borders and used every naval vessel at its disposable to intercept the refugee vessels and tow them back to their point of origin.

I read a horrific story this week about 30 people who drowned and died when an overcrowded boat containing two HUNDRED migrants capsized in the middle of the sea. The 30 that were killed were found with bits of their bodies missing and rescuers say they were eaten by sharks. And yet more and more will come and more and more will die. Because they see it as a gamble and know that it works. It is making a lot of unsavoury people very wealthy, including the mafia.

And where does it leave them? In a country where they the majority don't know the language and are jobless and homeless. How are their countries ever going to prosper when they are leaving in droves? People talk about how this country is becoming crowded, but if there's is becoming more empty, how will it ever recover?

I agree that the boats should be turned out. Not because of too much immigration but because it's the right thing to do. The rescuers think they are helping, but they are really, really not.

You're backtracking, Less, on your original comment of current movements of people being on a scale not seen since the end of the Roman Empire (I'm presuming you mean the Western Empire).

This is the exact argument Leave.Eu and Arron Banks use.

Mary Beard ftw

Why are you flabbergasted I can type that out mother

I believe that the Mayor of Palermo. In Sicily. Which sees more refugees in a week than the UK does in a year, has worked ceaselessly to help refugees.

www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals-network/2017/apr/18/he-fought-the-mafia-and-won-now-this-mayor-is-taking-on-europe-over-migrants

Despite Lessworriedaboutthecat obvious expertise in the area, I'd rather follow his lead.

That was my point earlier, Mission. Encouraging millions to migrate here isn't the way forward for Europe or for the countries they are leaving behind in my view. Disgusting people smugglers are raking it in and profiting from misery and it's not to the benefit of anyone else.

I'd rather we spent more money on improving lives and infrastructures in third world countries as otherwise more people will die and the inequality will just get worse and worse.

I was alerted by the (excellent) Michael Scott documentary about Sicily earlier this year (BBC4, naturally).

Did you read my post mummy Ultimately, do you think it is helping them? Do you think it's helping the many that die and drown? The ones that arrive and are forced to sell drugs and prostitute themselves? The ones that are forced into slave labour?

It would be more decent, IMO, to turn back every single boat so the message comes clear in the long run that crossing borders illegally will not work and hopefully discourage people from making such a dangerous journey.

I agree that the boats should be turned out. Not because of too much immigration but because it's the right thing to do. The rescuers think they are helping, but they are really, really not

Nonsense. Where are these human beings supposed to go? It’s all very well talking in hypothetical terms but the reality is, these people are fleeing dreadful circumstances. Sticking around and waiting for their country to get better is just ridiculous.

Yes Rebeccaslicker disgusting isn't it? in 2015 ALONE People smugglers earned more than 5 BILLION.

Believeitornot You can believe it or not (sorry, had to) but I don't think it's nonsense at all.

Encouraging millions to migrate here isn't the way forward for Europe or for the countries they are leaving behind in my view.

Actually I agree. If only there was a way to reduce our living standards and future prospects to deter immigrants.

oops I meant to direct that other post to mother not mummy - there isn't even a 'mummy' on this page

Lives and infrastructure in much of the third world already is improving. The number of people in absolute poverty worldwide is at its lowest ever. The problem isn't poverty its overpopulation putting pressure on resources and leading to unemployment. Until reproductive rights and education for women increase the problem is only going to worsen. Unfortunately the Catholic Church, Evangelicals and Islam of all stripes are all dead against this. Europe acting as Africa and the Middle Easts overflow is not the answer its only going to lead to civil war.

Mother - 2,000,000 people have moved to Europe in the last few years. The prediction is that another 10,000,000 will come in the next few years, driven by all sorts of reasons but primarily climate change and economics. Where would you draw the line? At what number would you say, this can't be good for the countries they are leaving behind or, in those sorts of numbers, the countries they are heading for in very disproportionate fractions?

there isn't even a 'mummy' on this page

(Checks site name ... )

I wouldn't say I lacked empathy because I'm sorry that people are dying and got eaten by sharks. Just because I have a different opinion to you doesn't mean I lack empathy. I could say the same to you for encouraging people to make such dangerous journey's where it has been well documented that loads of people don't. I won't, because I don't think you do, you just think differently to me.

The problem isn't poverty its overpopulation putting pressure on resources and leading to unemployment. Until reproductive rights and education for women increase the problem is only going to worsen

Now - no sarcasm - this is much more common ground ....

I haven't read the full thread before but yes it's easy to say we'll do more trade, make more money etc with the EU but what makes you think that EU countries will want to do trade with you now?

We've got the message you don't want to be part of the EU, that's fine leave but pay your dues.