To wonder why people assume posters are men when

[poolCam]

they don't like what they post.

There was a thread yesterday where a poster criticised the readability of another. Admittedly, the former was being goady but I do wonder why they immediately became a man in the eyes of others on the thread.

Does it show that there is in fact deep-seated sexism in both sexes?

Slarti you brought up silencing when you said you find my saying the below silencing.

MN is a rare thing - a female dominated space. Men who choose to come here should have respect for that IMO and exercise a little self-awareness. A lot of the time on here they will be discussing women issues with women in a female dominated space that exists in wider world of sexism.

I agreed with another poster that the idea of men being silenced for being men was breathtaking considering that the world over men's voices are valued over women's. Men's opinions carry more status than women's and women are often actively prevented or discouraged from speaking out or holding public office or other positions which give them a voice.

You replied saying that anyone can be silenced. I replied asking you to elaborate on men being silenced in a gendered manner. You didn't elaborate.

I read and listened to your opinion. I disagreed with it and explained why. You still haven't elaborated other then to say that I should accept your opinion because it is yours about something you say happens.

I agree with you, the OP and others that posters are sometimes dismissed on MN because they post a male perspective. I agree that posters will sometimes voice suspicions that a poster is male especially if they post in a certain style / are goady / repeatly pop up on on certain threads.

Is it always fair? Probably not.

But I hardly think it is silencing men.

PoolCam, I'm obviously not familiar with the forum you mention so I'm basing what I'm saying on imagining it.

Yes I think it would be respectful for female posters to not let male posters assume they were male if they were sharing anything about their personal lives and inviting others to comment.

Having said that I think there is a difference between a male poster joining in on a discussion being had by women and a female poster joining in a discussion being had by men - for the reasons that I have mentioned above about male voices being given more status, more weight, the expectation that women will defer to men, discourse in general on the internet and the world over being dominated by men, etc, etc. (Additionally women are unlikely to be engaging in voyeurism / exhibitionism trolling in forums used mostly by men in the way we depressingly often get here.)

I think MN is really precious because it is a rare thing. Places where male voices dominate are ten a penny. I actually think that the reason for MN's success is that women are drawn by its unique selling point of being a place where female voices, opinion, perspective and experience are the focus 😊

I suspect that there are more men on here than we think. Just the other week, I had a very lovely male paramedic come to rescue me who noticed the laptop page was on Mumsnet. He said 'oh, you're on MN, do you have children?'.

I do often wonder what attracts men to MN though. It's not entirely geared for men. At times, it can feel a little intrusive to be honest. I know it's a public parenting site, but it's a bit like you're having a girly evening with your buddies in the kitchen and MAN comes in from the sitting room to join in with your discussion, so you have to change the dynamics of the conversation you're having.
And yes, sometimes, the writing style or attitudes can be dead giveaways that the poster is male.
It's not that I despise their presence as such, moreso that I don't particularly revere their presence.

BeachComber I think we'll agree to disagree as to 'the patriarchy' etc. The last thing I want to do is prove a few doubters right and end up arguing on a tangent.

I like and value MN but never see it and a bastion of femininity (femaleness?).

Having said that, I think the answer to Whoyagonna's "why are men attracted" is because it's an insight to women. Obviously not all and obviously a skewed view depending on what board you read but it's perhaps better than nothing.

I pity you a little Whoyagonna when you think men "intrude" on a public parenting website, or a man comes into the kitchen and ruins the conversation or I'm not racist but "It's not that I despise their presence as such ..."

I get the impression that you absolutely understand why and how male pronouns are used insultingly.

"I pity you a little Whoyagonna when you think men "intrude" on a public parenting website, or a man comes into the kitchen and ruins the conversation or I'm not racist but "It's not that I despise their presence as such ..."

Of course a man coming in changes the dynamic of a previously all woman group. Just as the arrival of a woman would change the dynamic of an all man group. Not sure why that's something that calls for pity!

Hello ladies

Is normally a massive fucking clue

I don't think this particular man has ever been let out in society before.

You're even bringing racism into it now.

Yet, we should value your contribution.

Because he's a man innit! And it's his RIGHT to be here!!!! And God forbid we should not welcome him with open arms and maybe put him in charge of the joint.

Eh, no. I value every contribution on merit. I don't like contributions to this site such as the OPs.

Give me strength.

?

OP why do you care? The whole fricking world is stacked in men's favour, if one tiny little corner of the internet is more supportive to women than men, I can't get upset about it. There are women being raped, murdered, kept as slaves etc by men, we aren't listened to anywhere, so why are you so upset that men might get a slightly harder time on here? Do you see men hand wringing about street harrasment?

It's really not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. I don't think it's true anyway, I often see posts on here that let men off with far more than a woman would get away with, in terms of childcare, housework etc.

I am regularly accused of being a bloke on threads
which is surreal because I've had the same name (give or take a random letter) since 2008

Then again that gender checker site was pretty sure I was bloke as well - maybe I should tell my husband

I reckon a lot of what we may disagree on on this thread depends on how you use MN.

I don't really use it as a parenting website. And to me MN isn't a parenting forum, it's a discussion forum to exchange on all aspects of its predominantly female members lives and interests. Because we are women an aspect that brings many of us here is motherhood or trying for motherhood. Because we are women and most childcare, especially of young children, still falls to women, that is also something we have in common. But many members, myself included, spend more time reading and contributing to threads about news, politics, hobbies, telly, books, films, etc than parenting threads. I like MN because it is vast and focuses on women and what interests us and what our opinions are be that on pregnancy or chicken keeping or Brexit.

I don't think women enjoying exchanging with other women, and finding male voices intrude on that dynamic, something to be pitied! How odd. Do you not see a worth in female space poolCam?

The racism comparison was used on the other thread too.
What are we all having for tea tonight?

AngelsSins

I'm not even vaguely upset. I wasn't aware I'd given that impression. I care simply because I don't think someone's sex should be used as an insult.

Since you began with a combative tone, I'll respond.

The world is not stacked in favour of men. Women live longer, are better educated, more likely to attend university and then work in a relevant post-graduate position. They're less likely to die in an industrial accident or kill themselves. They out-earn men. They contribute less in taxes and cost society more (even excluding childbirth).

However, none of this has anything to do with my post. I wasn't asking if or why men get a hard time here (although good to know you think it's simply the universe keeping balance). My question was why male pronouns are used as an insult when there is no explicit indicator of a posters gender / sex.

Can I quote you if someone says she had her arse pinched on a train or their boss is behaving inappropriately? You know, talk about rape and slavery and "it's really not a big deal in the grand scheme of things".

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/feminist_theory DFOD ---->

I don't think women enjoying exchanging with other women, and finding male voices intrude on that dynamic, something to be pitied! How odd.

I agree. The male perspective is very different, due to socialisation. It is a rare man who can interact with women without bringing their male privilege to the table.

It happens on here, because I’ve seen it. And it’s lovely when it does.

I believe I have answered your question a few posts back.

We view your input as inferior. We view you as inferior.

Go back and play with the boys.

Totally missing the point of the thread, but I've just tried the text "I am a man. With a penis. And a beard. I am very manly. I like manly things, like talking down to women, mansplaining, DIY and other manly stuff." in the gender checker posted by BitOfFun on the first page. It guesses female

(Yes, I know it says minimum 300 words, but it amused me. I also copied in about 400 words of my dissertation and it guesses male, so meh.)

PoolCam your argument as to why the world is not stacked in favor of men is all over the place.

Why do you think women contribute less in taxes? Because the world gives them a vagina tax break on their earnings or because women make less taxable income than men?? And yet you argue in the same paragraph that women out earn men. What nonsense.

How are they out earning men and paying less in tax

Ooh crosspost

Do you not see a worth in female space poolCam?

Not for most things you mentioned Beach. My OBGYN is a man but if I wanted experiences / consensus on some aspect of women's health, I'd like women's perspective; I'd find it weird if a man wanted to be involved. For example, DH will buy sanpro without issue but would run for the hills if someone discussed anything in detail with him. I like that!

I value unsafe spaces more than safe spaces as they mimic life a little more. I can ignore GFs. I can weight others' opinions and I can filter nonsense.

I also value mixed-sex 'spaces'. I tend to have male friends and be traditionally un-girly (motorbike racing etc) but did go to an all-girls school. I can be loud and obnoxious and don't shy away from opinions so aren't intimidated by men in a group and if talking about something controversial I see it as an opportunity to either educate or be educated. I don't feel the need to shut men out so I can be my true self.

Women contribute more in taxes until child-bearing age when there's a steep and understandable drop. I wish I hadn't replied to that poster as it is derailing the thread. If I wanted a shouting match where nothing was conceded by either side, I'd go on an AIBU trans thread or head over to the feminism board. That would be goady and trolling though as the only possible outcome would be a fight!

Whoyougonna

"We view your input as inferior. We view you as inferior."

Fortunately, you seem to be in the hateful and obnoxious minority. I have no idea who this "we" is you speak of.

So OP is a manly man?

Or no?

Weebo

I'm a woman. Not a traditionally feminine one but I don't like gender stereotypes.

Women live longer, are better educated, more likely to attend university and then work in a relevant post-graduate position. They're less likely to die in an industrial accident or kill themselves. They out-earn men. They contribute less in taxes and cost society more (even excluding childbirth).
That will be news to the women of Africa, South America, Asia, eastern Europe and much of Central America.

OP you have a very blinkered view of the world