To wonder why people assume posters are men when

[poolCam]

they don't like what they post.

There was a thread yesterday where a poster criticised the readability of another. Admittedly, the former was being goady but I do wonder why they immediately became a man in the eyes of others on the thread.

Does it show that there is in fact deep-seated sexism in both sexes?

Only you know whether it IS irony OP, so that's a bit of a blind alley.

I mentioned in a post yesterday that the poster I was replying to was a man.

I did so because I know that (prolific) poster to be a man as it has come up on other threads. He was IMO pontificating about femininity and feminists whilst using terms which appropriate and misrepresent feminist language and concepts. It pissed me off and I said so.

Didn't mean "man" as an insult. I meant it as "perhaps you should consider that as a man you might listen to what women have to say on women's issues".

It went over his head and he posted back insisting that he knew better. I dropped it in order not to derail the thread.

It was a very typical exchange with a (certain type) of male poster. You get good at spotting the pattern after a while (although in this case I already knew the poster it probably appeared to others on the thread that I was calling him a man because I disagreed with him).

I think there's probably a fine line between implicitly saying "perhaps you should consider that as a man you might listen to what women have to say on women's issues" and "you're a man so you don't count."

I am a man so may be overly sensitive to such interpretations here. I don't think I've ever been accused of being a man here (I try to be open about it when I think it matters or might be an issue of contention) nor had it used as an insult against me, but I have seen it said to others. That could be down to my own misinterpretation and bias in some cases, but in others I do think it's a way to diminish a disagreeing person's argument and shut them down.

I think everyone has been more than generous you still seem to be goading

Penggg

Yes.

Despite some insistence that I only want to cause a bunfight, I don't and am interested and can't post examples as I'll be TAAT'ing (can I?)

I've seen people asked their sex and I think I've asked too. It can certainly have an effect on both the poster's views as well as the way others respond and can be asked without offending or giving offence.

The thread I read most recently was a poster being a pedant (and a bit of an arse) but they were short replies with none of the markers you mentioned. Within a few posts, replies were along the lines of "ignore him", "he's bored", "he's showing himself to be a dickhead". It was a non-controversial, non-feministy thread and the gendering of the replies was nothing more than an insult.

There have been other examples more like Slarti's and MrsMud's examples where not toeing the line get's snide replies where pronouns change.

Battleax

One example, "I don't know why [username] keeps posting his BS, all his posts are being zapped now."

They were being an arsehole and deserved to be called one but there was no mention of gender or sex and neither was the topic gendery or feministy etc.

Russell

Firstly, I think I confused you with Pratchett. No offence.

The italics you used certainly felt like that you were insinuating I was a man or at least wrote like one. I guess that's the problem with written rather than spoken language.

I thought I'd addressed all points.

I suppose it depends on what sort of dilemma Pengggwn. As a pp said she felt treated badly when posting about her lesbian relationship because initially she was assumed to be a man.

One example, "I don't know why [username] keeps posting his BS, all his posts are being zapped now."

They were being an arsehole and deserved to be called one but there was no mention of gender or sex and neither was the topic gendery or feministy etc.

In all honesty, that just sounds as though there's a backstory that you're oblivious to but is known to regulars.

Slarti I don't think what you have described is a fine line at all.

Posters here generally speak their minds. If I had wanted to make the (pointless and rude) point that I considered that, as a man the poster in question didn't count, I would have done so.

The point I was making was a bit more sophisticated than that but in no way cloaked in mysterious subtlety. It's not my fault if it went over the poster's head.

It's annoying for women to have men tell us they know better about women's issues (and everything else) . It's behavior we come across all the time in real life and often we have to put up with it in silence as to do otherwise would cause us problems or even put us in danger.

MN is a rare thing - a female dominated space. Men who choose to come here should have respect for that IMO and exercise a little self-awareness. A lot of the time on here they will be discussing women issues with women in a female dominated space that exists in wider world of sexism.

Battleax

Nothing that shows up from searching. They were accused of being a PBP but had not posted before.

Beachcomber

I agree with what you said but you're talking about different circumstances. Sex can be relevant. I don't think men need to respect female domination but I do think that everyone needs self-awareness. I have never posted on the feminism boards as I'd argue the toss with people entrenched in their mindsets about a "wider world of sexism". I don't go on to trans AIBU threads for similar reasons.

When sex is irrelevant then suddenly gendering pronouns with an "opponent" seems wrong. Do you agree?

Oh, why do I get the feeling this involves Tiggy?

That would explain a lot

Beachcomber, I was meaning in general rather than in your specific example. Just that it's easy for the question "are you a man" to be interpreted (and intended) both ways.

Perhaps it is because I am a man (meaning my interpretation is biased) but for me the last part of your post does seem quite silencing. I'm not for one minute saying that women should have to put up with men telling them they know better about women's issues, but there's a sense that this being a female dominated space reduces us to passive, almost second class, posters, rather than equals. If you'd read something like that on a male dominated forum I can imagine it would come across as "women, know your place".

"MansNet is a typical thing - a male dominated space. Women who choose to come here should have respect for that IMO and exercise a little self-awareness"

No-one should be inhibited in posting anywhere in the basis of sex or gender (something which isnn't verified on MN anyhow). They should stand or fall by their words.

I seriously dislike this newfangled trend for excluding

All powerful , and that example would would work if it were not for the position of women in soceity. Women need a place like MN because the rest of the internet is dominated by men and their views. I am sorry but I am shedding no tears for men feeling excluded on MN ( and this is the second thread like this in 2 days), the fact that people are talking about men being silenced is breathtaking.

I'm not sure Poolcam. I mean I'm not sure if the sex of a poster is ever entirely irrelevant on MN.

I say that because MN is overwhelmingly used by women and by consequence that is a major part of its identity and atmosphere. Which is what I mean when I say that it is a female dominated space. I don't mean that in a power sense I just mean that it is a predominantly female space.

And that means that there is an underlying assumption (unless shown or told otherwise) that posters are women.

The male poster I mentioned wasn't on a thread in feminism. It was in AIBU and his authoritative manner and pontificating to women about women was IMO totally out of place. I guess that is a fairly transparent example (although he didn't get it!) but I think there are a lot of threads on which a poster's sex is relevant - sometimes simply because there is a general assumption that posters are women.

If you post on a hugely predominantly female anonymous forum on which most people will assume you are a woman, and you don't let it be known that you are a man, you are in a position that isn't entirely honest and could be abused. Plus in the world in general men's voices are heard much more than women's so it's nice (and IMO precious and important) to have places where women's voices dominate for once.

Which is why a lot of posters here are suspicious of / don't have much time for male posters. Hence "man" sometimes being dismissive.

I have never seen a thread of this kind on a male-dominated site. And as birdsdestiny points out I have now seen two here in as many days (and having been here many years they have cropped up fairly frequently before)

I totally agree with you birdsdestiny.

Seriously OP if we've just had all this pursed lips innuendo levelled at the whole site collectively because TIGGY defied a ban, gate rashes the site and was recognised immediately, (which seems the likely explanation) you really do look a bit silly

You might as well post a link to the thread now. Let's see what this is actually about.

Slarti your post above is actually quite a good example of what I'm talking about.

There is no male equivalent to "women know your place" is there?

Which is presumably why you used the female put down - the male one doesn't exist and to suggest that it does, as you have just done, is to indulge in a false equivalence.

As is your suggestion that women saying that men should exercise self-awareness when opining in a predominantly female space is "silencing".

As birdsdestiny says, the idea of men being silenced is breathtaking and it would be very very ironically funny here if it wasn't so irritating.

Men are used to dominating conversation. I have often seen male posters complain of being silenced or treated as second class when politely and patiently asked by women to refrain from dominating the conversation women are trying to have (in a predominantly female space which is by its very nature concerned with women's issues).

pengggwn has come out with some excellent pointers, very impressive (and a bit scary) as have others

I have been referred to as a man but thats was purely down to the name...which is odd because not all reindeers can be male

I think that there are different styles of posting between the sexes but obviously you are going to a get a percentage who throw the theory

hey were accused of being a PBP but had not posted before

I know which poster you are referring to

Ive no idea as im rubbish at recognising posters but someone did say that the poster concerned regularly name changed

Ive searched someone who is being dreadful on a thread and for a first time poster they had certainly thrown themselves into the fray with enthusiasm

Going against the grain here, I know exactly what you mean op.

On a few occasions where someone has disagreed with me they have used the pronoun “he” and it was very much meant in a passive aggressive way and to belittle and put me down. It continued even after I had said I’m not a he.

However, it was ages ago and I don’t think it’s happened to me recently but I have noticed it.

I think I spotted it happening to someone else the other day too but I’m not well at the moment so can’t be sure of the details and I may be misremembering.

I think if my posting style was “male” it would happen more often rather than just when someone vehemently disagrees with me. I think it’s more likely people are using male as an insult (where the default assumption on here is female due to the stats) because they’re shitty, rather than because they have conducted some MI5 style analysis of posting style.

Still, it did make me chuckle a bit. Only on MN can someone say “has anyone else found X?” and people say “No, and here’s an academic study on a related [but not necessarily relevant] topic that proves you wrong”.