To wonder why people assume posters are men when

[poolCam]

they don't like what they post.

There was a thread yesterday where a poster criticised the readability of another. Admittedly, the former was being goady but I do wonder why they immediately became a man in the eyes of others on the thread.

Does it show that there is in fact deep-seated sexism in both sexes?

Beachcomber, I did say that my interpretation could be biased (but then, of course, so could anyone else's) and I don't think men should assume to tell women about issues they clearly know less about (the men, that is). I don't think that men being politely asked to refrain from dominating conversations on women's issues is silencing them, just that sometime's their gender (or assumed/accused gender) can be used like that.

I disagree that the idea of men being silenced is breathtaking. Anyone can be silenced if the power dynamic allows it. You could be part of a dominant powerful group in one situation but in another be a minority with little power or influence, and vice versa.

I think there is something very arrogant about posting on a community forum for women (MN not ParentNet) and expecting to be treated, immediately, as an equal, when you are (quite often) seeking validation for actions and views that are roundly criticised on that forum. Of course feminists aren't going to speak to anti-feminists as equals; they think they're fools. Of course female posters are going to speak to a man who is posting about his right not to pay maintenance if he doesn't get to see his children because there is a restraining order against him as if he is a dick - the very reason they are on MN in the first place is often because men have behaved towards them like dicks and they are seeking the solidarity of a female perspective. They are not here to sympathise with men who hold very different views to them.

I'm the only one who mentioned being equal and I didn't in any way mean as "feminists and anti feminists"

Slarti can you give me a few examples of men being silenced or not having their voices heard and considered because I'm struggling to see what you are saying as anything other than hypothetical.

Of course people, of which some of whom will be male, are not heard on minority issues which affect them. Poor people have less of a voice than rich people for example. But poor men do not have less of a voice because they are men, they have less of a voice because they are poor and generally where men are not heard, women have even less of a chance of being heard.

What I am talking about as breathtaking is the idea of men being silenced by women because they are men. Sometimes (unbelievable as it may seem) women are not interested in what men have to say. Sometimes we are fed up of being expected to eagerly listen to what men have to say. We are bored of the male authoritative voice and men taking up more than their fair space of conversation and debate. We are frustrated by men not listening to us and then regurgitating our ideas and taking credit for them as their own.

Wanting men to put a sock in it every once in a while in a world overwhelming dominated by male voices is not "silencing". It's ridiculous and deeply self absorbed to suggest that it is actually. But men are socialized not only to dominate discourse but to think it is an outrageous injustice when women can't be arsed to listen to them again and again and again.

This may seem harsh to you. Here you are as an individual man politely interacting with individual women. But it's an accumulation over our days and lives of men talking over us and at us and rarely considering that there is a valid perspective other than the male one that makes us impatient and irritated by individual interactions which are part of that wider pattern.

Again, hence why lots of us appreciate MN.

I think it's fascinating how easy it is to recognise some individual posters from their turn of phrase and general writing style. It's like hearing a very distinctive voice.

I can quite imagine that more generally, we can pick up bass from alto, so to speak. Human pattern recognition is pretty good stuff.

And given that that probably made no sense outside my own head, I should say I mean that you can distinguish 'the voice' even after a name change. (Xenia in all her many aliases is the shining example, even when she's not talking about out-earning her husband.)

I have no idea what pen is talking about now

I know what a comma is but no idea why its split

I do know what parentheses are

What's an MRA?

Battleax

Not sure if TIGGY is an acronym or an infamous user.

If I guessed your post correctly though, I've been around for a few years and my thread isn't about a single user; it happens reasonably often.

Beachcomber

"Cat Charity has lost my cat"
"To think Meghan comes across as ..."
"To be surprised M&S has a modesty clothing line"
"The aftershock of being poor or in poverty"

Of the 5 discussions of the day, I think only one has a gender 'issue'. Not everything is gendered.

I certainly don't think it's dishonest to not announce your maleness. Dishonest and weird to pretend to be a woman, of course.

Pengggwn

The poster wasn't obviously a man though and that's my point. They didn't come across well but equating that as being male is sexism, as I said in my first post. The gendered pronouns only appeared as people lost patience with them.

Thanks pen

I think

I always fancy thinking I can tell when a poster is male. It's just something in the way they write.

Another dead give away is the username with an actual name Samantha76 or coolPam poolCam

If this is about the same post I saw yesterday (the one about using paragraphs?), the user name gave the impression it was a male poster.

Not off the top of my head Beachcomber. I suppose that will make it very easy for you to discount my opinion but that's up to you. I'm not here with any ulterior motive despite the negative picture I feel you're painting of me. I commented on this thread because I recognised what the OP was talking about. I'm not going to disagree with everything you said about the accumulative effect of domineering men or that women sometimes just aren't interested in what men have to say, suffice to say I don't think any of that precludes what the OP or I have said about this specific sphere, ie a female dominated space.

Poolcam, I think that we are coming at this from different angles.

For example I think discussing Meghan is gendered. I also think discussions about the aftermath of poverty are gendered.

IMO, the vast majority of discussions on MN are gendered whether they are specifically talking about "gender politics" or not - because our world and therefore life experiences are gendered and society is run according to gendered cultural hegemony.

Male posters on here know that unless they state otherwise they will be assumed to be female. Which is why lots of our male posters purposely have male sounding names. I was on a thread ages ago with some regular male posters who said that they felt in the interests of transparency and honesty that they wanted to be open about their maleness and that to do otherwise wasn't quite cricket. Not necessarily every time on every thread but in a general way across threads in an easily searchable way.

Slarti if you don't have any examples of men being silenced in a gendered manner than it isn't so much a case of me discounting your opinion rather it is that your argument is weak. 😐

As I said Beachcomber, I recognised what the OP was talking about from having been a member here for years. That doesn't mean I have mentally bookmarked these posts for later.

And clearly you do discount my opinion. If I asked you for examples of anything you've mentioned it would be obvious that I didn't believe it. By your own admission you find the idea breathtaking so rather than accept my experience as I would yours you suggest it cannot and has not happened.

It’s a piece of piss telling if someone is male on the feminist boards.

But that’s generally because they do have a definite agenda and tells all over the place.

"And clearly you do discount my opinion. If I asked you for examples of anything you've mentioned it would be obvious that I didn't believe it."

I do think it's a bit strange if you can't even talk about the sort of thing you mean, if you've seen it happen often.

I also think that people sometimes say they've been "silenced" and "shouted down" if they have been disagreed with by more than one person. And it can feel that way, certainly. I have experienced it often when I have posted about the sort of sexism that is regarded by some as "political correctness gone mad". The level of mockery and even actual abuse is sometimes quite astonishing. For example (See? I can come up with examples) recently there was a thread about whether or not traditional fairy tales were acceptable fare for young children, and there was a torrent of the usual "hasn't she got anything else to worry about/giving feminism a bad name/can't say anything these days without offending someone" stuff. And a suggestion that the woman who raised the issue needed "a kick in the cunt". Pretty hard not to feel a bit silenced when that sort of thing happens.

Which reminds me of what Pengggwn said, They [many of the mainly female users and posters] are not here to sympathise with men who hold very different views to them

Which is kind of why I like MN. And I shouldn't have to feel on the back foot about that, should I?

I have shown kindness and sympathy to many men posting on MN, and I don't see why that would change; but I'm not going to alter my political thinking to accommodate men's entitlement.

Datun

But that isn't what I'm talking about. To be honest, I don't really know what goes on on the feminist board.

GreenPurpleRed

poolCam is because as of yesterday I view security cameras remotely and the demo one was 'PoolCam1'. Nothing as witty as your idea (JrilliantBanet doesn't have the same ring).

Beachcomber

So you think men should announce their sex even when pretty (or completely) irrelevant? Wouldn't there be lots of pissy replies about mansplaining if a post began with "as a man ..."?

I didn't say I thought men should annonce their sex. I said that some regular male MN posters felt it wasn't cricket to let others assume they were female. I also said that I felt men should exercise self awareness and act with respect when posting on an anonymous forum, predominanted by women on which other posters would assume they were women.

It's easy to have a male sounding username or talk about your DW or female partner (in a way that makes it unlikely you are a lesbian) or throw in the odd "when I was a boy" or "my other male colleagues" or somesuch. No need to make announcements. Loads of regular male posters do it in a sensible and sensitive fashion and I think it is generally appreciated and appropriate when they do.

No, I was asking not asking you to clarify.

You still want to know the sex then, even if it's subtly done. That strikes me as strange for many AIBU threads and that's what I'm talking about. Different on feminism or other boards.

The other forum I use is a sport / hobby one. There's little anonymity and no name changing. 99% men. The general chat is often busier than the sport part and there's lots of talk about unreasonable wives / neighbours / children / bosses and colleagues. Male-specific health questions etc. Should women need to subtly give away their sex?