In not wanting to be a feminist

[tireddotcom72]

I know I’m not alone as have had this conversation with friends but does anyone else feel PC stuff is just going too far now. The gender stuff is confusing me - I’m female always have been always will be and perfectly happy that way I don’t want to identify whatever that means with anything else and change my mind or whatever the gender fluid thing is ( that really confuses me) I’m mum to a daughter - who when younger was a pink, princess, Barbie loving frilly dress wearing child. I loved her wearing pretty dresses and wanting pretty hair. I’ve always worked in female dominated jobs - through choice no one forced me from being little I wanted to be cabin crew, my parents would have preferred me to be a solicitor, accountant or doctor like my siblings but supported my decision to go into the beauty industry because that’s what I was happy doing.
When I was younger I was whistled at in the street, had my bum pinched in nightclubs etc I wasn’t offended or outraged.

I don’t want to live in a genderless world, I don’t want my teenage daughter being in gender neutral changing rooms, I don’t even like being referred to as someone’s partner I’m quite happy being called his girlfriend.

I don’t want to offend anyone with my probably old fashioned views - I’m not even old! But I’m getting fed up of constantly hearing and reading about what I should think and believe, i mean the latest fuss about Sleeping beauty ..... what will pc brigade want to ban next?

There are certainly plenty of atheist feminists who think Dawkins is a misogynistic arsehole, but they're not all signing up to religion because of it.

@AssassinatedBeauty,

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3088346-Men-whose-lives-are-facilitated-by-women-Part-2?pg=14 last post here.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3073618-Am-I-overreacting-aboit-DHs-new-female-friend?pg=13

"I don't hate men, but this is what life has shown me, personally I believe it's a biological/evolutionary thing."

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3093640-Found-a-condom-in-boyfriends-jeans-pocket?pg=13

"I fucking hate men"

Just see shit like this all the time. Admittedly the last 2 examples they never said they were feminist.

Are you a feminist and are you pro trans rights?

What does one have to do with the other?

If it helps, I am pro-everyone being treated fairly and equally no matter what their choices/lifestyle/biology/circumstances

There’s millions of women and girls around the world who still can’t vote, who can’t own anything, who are the property of males, who are refused education, who are legally raped by their husbands, who have their genitals mutilated, who are treat as slaves

This.

Every single woman posting on here is a feminist. They don’t want these things you mention, to live that way, they want their current rights and more. Simply some of them are also pig ignorant to as to what feminism is. Fortunately for them others did and fought to give them what they have. They should bow their heads in shame.

AssassinatedBeauty

I am of the opinion that you can't with any seriousness accept that 93% of British women have en mass had their views on feminism wholly influenced by a 'negative campaign' (by which I assume you mean print / tv / online media?) unless you are willing to assume that said women somehow have no agency or ability to critically think for themselves. Which to be honest is a pretty low opinion to have of almost half the population. I have seen other surveys asking women if they believe in equality between the sexes and the results not too surprisingly are almost always 100%. So why has modern feminism become such a toxic brand that the vast majority of women have rejected being identified as one.

Didn't this figure come from a yougov survey?

Every job I have done since leaving uni - overseas resort rep / retail management / cabin crew / teaching I have been paid exactly the same as men, had exactly the same opportunities. Can’t compare my role in the beauty industry as I was self employed and don’t know any men who do that job.

What if you were not allowed to go to uni in the first place, just because you're female? Cambridge Uni did not award degrees to woman until 1947.

What if you couldn't be self employed because you were married? Unable to sign legal documents or enter into contracts?

What if someone else decided if you were allowed to work or not? And then if you were, you had to relinquish your wages to someone else?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coverture
" Instead, through marriage a woman's existence was incorporated into that of her husband, so that she had very few recognized individual rights of her own. As it has been pithily expressed, husband and wife were one person as far as the law was concerned, and that person was the husband. A married woman could not own property, sign legal documents or enter into a contract, obtain an education against her husband's wishes, or keep a salary for herself. If a wife was permitted to work, under the laws of coverture, she was required to relinquish her wages to her husband."

But atheism has one strict definition (not believing in God) whereas feminism is meant to be just "equality for women" but seems to have about 10 different branches - moderate, liberal, radical, bra-burning, etc. People have different ideas for how to achieve that equality.

Also atheists don't constantly have people say loads of idiotic stuff in their name, at least not that I constantly hear about in the news.

There’s millions of women and girls around the world who still can’t vote, who can’t own anything, who are the property of males, who are refused education, who are legally raped by their husbands, who have their genitals mutilated, who are treat as slaves

Yeah, but the OP likes pink things and can't see a problem with being felt up by strangers. Down with the hairy feminists!

I am not a feminist but I am anti trans-rights

One of the most Concerning things I have ever read.

So to be clear for anyone reading, you have said you do not believe in equality of the sexes and you do not believe women are or should be equal to men, and nor do you believe anyone who .identifes as a different gender to which they were born should have the rights of that gender, they should have the rights of the gender they were born with.

So if female to Male they should not pertain to be equal to men. They should accept they are lesser.

Is that really what you wish to say?

Having ten branches just puts it on the religious side, surely?
If a Christian is asked if they are religious, the answer is yes.
If a liberal feminist is asked if they are feminist the answer is yes.

It might be different theologically to a radical or eco feminist, but they're still all on the yes side

beyond absolutely , but for some reason feminism ‘top trumps’ obscures the common principles

PanGalactic, can you say why you think it's become a "toxic brand"?

I didn't mention any kind of "negative campaign". I don't think there's an organised campaign of denigration. I think it suits a lot of different people to attack and misrepresent feminism. I don't think that 93% of women are idiots who are taken in by anti-feminist comments. But clearly, you and nearly all other women think feminism is toxic and hateful. This is the fault of feminists only? For being too unkind to men? Or for wanting to be victims? Or for something else?

It's not even as if feminism has a centralised organising body that is responsible for putting out a cohesive message. Feminism is just lots of individual women getting together to try and make changes. Why that needs aggressively attacking and destroying by other women I really don't understand.

I've already commented, but I find all the "in way above your head" and "YABU" posts a bit much.
The OP has presumably posted from seeing threads on here earlier and being disturbed by it. As I was.
If you see terms like gender fluid, cis, trans, etc, along with an inkling of allowing your girl children to like Barbies is a bad thing, you're bound to rise up and think "hang on a minute. Don't speak for me."
So what if she's mistook being a feminist for not liking pink stuff etc? The important thing is she's sitting up and taking notice. Education is learning, asking, not being shut down or eye rolled at.

Is there a word for people who believe in equality for all, rather than just for women?

I will always speak out where it seems women are being treated unfairly. However, I also had a discussion with two blokes at work who have been put in a work situation which makes their personal lives very difficult, and it’s a situation their boss would never put me in without my express agreement. I am just as angry about what happened to them as I am about inequalities against some. Maybe I will start a movement called equalism.

I’ve never seen anyone on MN say all men are rapists.

I’ve seen posters say things like over %90 of sexual crimes are committed by men. That’s not the same as saying all/majority of men are rapists.

Lots of discussions about gender neutral bathrooms I’ve read on here seem to have feminists debating and fighting to keep the female sex only option, but they are met with hostility, are accused of calling all men rapists, or of bigotry.

FWIW I used to try ignore unwanted sexual groping from men but it usually made them carry on as I hadn’t said no. Saying no made them angry and I’d be threatened with rape. Being polite was seen as consent or encouragement so I’d be accused of ‘prick teasing’. When I was 25 and pregnant with dd I was out for a meal with dh, as we walked in he went to toilet while I went to bar, some bloke grabbed my arse and I tried ignoring, he did it again and as I turned to ask him to stop he punched me in the face busting my lip.

Unwanted sexual touching may not upset you, but for many women it does and they want it to not happen to their children so are campaigning and fighting for women to go about their daily business without hiring sexually harassed/assaulted.

Here here pumpkin

x% of rapists are men =/= x% of men are rapists

Original, I believe the term they use is humanism :)

Bluntness100 No. Stop trying to suggest a narrative I have not written. My first post on this thread said that whilst I don't subscribe to a / various brands of feminism known to MN I do support equality and parity between men and women.

Ahhhh do you not think when someone comes on saying "I'm not a feminist because I associate it with a load of stuff that it isn't" we'd all do better to be a bit more welcoming and help people realise that they are actually feminists than putting them off further by being snippy to them?

My point entirely, just seen this! Far too many "militant feminists" spouting shit, making women roll their eyes and tune out. Far better to have a decent debate, educate, and show that some stuff affects all of us females!

yolo

As you say the last two quotes didnt say they were feminists

I quite often see similar quotes But quite often when i look at the thread i see that they have not said they are feminists

Its a bit unfair to blame feminists for things that other posters are saying

A regular poster on here is always being accused of being a feminist....but she doesn't identify as such, she just says stuff that other people think is feministy

Too many feminists

In my post obviously...not life in general

The important thing is she's sitting up and taking notice. Education is learning, asking, not being shut down or eye rolled at

I disagree, the OP is quite emphatic about having no intention of educating herself about concepts she doesn't fully understand.

nearly all other women think feminism is toxic and hateful.
Or, nearly all other women know that men consider feminism toxic and hateful so will avoid the lable when working with men to reach equality.