In not wanting to be a feminist

[tireddotcom72]

I know I’m not alone as have had this conversation with friends but does anyone else feel PC stuff is just going too far now. The gender stuff is confusing me - I’m female always have been always will be and perfectly happy that way I don’t want to identify whatever that means with anything else and change my mind or whatever the gender fluid thing is ( that really confuses me) I’m mum to a daughter - who when younger was a pink, princess, Barbie loving frilly dress wearing child. I loved her wearing pretty dresses and wanting pretty hair. I’ve always worked in female dominated jobs - through choice no one forced me from being little I wanted to be cabin crew, my parents would have preferred me to be a solicitor, accountant or doctor like my siblings but supported my decision to go into the beauty industry because that’s what I was happy doing.
When I was younger I was whistled at in the street, had my bum pinched in nightclubs etc I wasn’t offended or outraged.

I don’t want to live in a genderless world, I don’t want my teenage daughter being in gender neutral changing rooms, I don’t even like being referred to as someone’s partner I’m quite happy being called his girlfriend.

I don’t want to offend anyone with my probably old fashioned views - I’m not even old! But I’m getting fed up of constantly hearing and reading about what I should think and believe, i mean the latest fuss about Sleeping beauty ..... what will pc brigade want to ban next?

hollow but don’t you feel that the responsibility for stopping or at least dramatically reducing the number of rapes is down to men?

Poor kid, Skaross. I think, if I'm following you, you are saying that you DO understand and agree that same-sex services are needed for some things, but disagree that it's necessary for changing cubicles?

The teen boy has a right to get changed away from female people. If he was abused by someone female, its likely that he would be very scared being surrounded by females when half naked. Same as females have the right not to change next to males.

I don't see any real reason why anyone would disagree with sex segregation. Especially when so much abuse does go on.

Also claiming I've got my ideas about feminism from "listening to men" is also rude and unneccessary. I've got them from listening to woman feminists.

Of course not all men are rapists. But all rapists are men. And most perpetrators of violence are men. Saying that isn't generalizing- it's just stating a fact.

And of course the young man at the rape crisis centre should have been able to be examined by a male doctor. But if the vast majority of the clients are women and would prefer a woman doctor then it's going to be a woman that's most likely to be available.

Hmm, I wonder why the medical staff on duty at the rape centre were female? And why the you lad was not able to visit a male-led rape centre?

Maybe something to do with the overwhelming numbers of women assaulted by men vs the other way round? (I think it's 98% or in that area - without double checking). Incidentally which is what led to feminists leading the charge to even set up designated rape centres. Thank god they did or your poor lad wouldn't have had half the care he did. I hope he is ok.

pumper no I believe it is down to the people who sexually assault others. Not 'men'. Women don't like generalising so, in the name of being equal, let's not do it to men either.

bertrand that is because the definition of rape is penetrative assault. If we were to use 'sexual assault' in its place then you will find many women have also been guilty.

Most men who pontificate about feminism are idiots.

Wow.

He didn’t get any care because he refused the doctor.

I believe that in an intimate and traumatic situation then yes people should get to chose their Worker. I don’t think ‘all rapists are mrn’ (Which is based on a technicality) is a valid excuse for this not to happen.

I don’t believe public places should be segregated.

There problem is that all rapes and most sexual assault and violence are committed by men.. So even if you're just thinking in practical, police and victim support funding terms, terms you have to accept that..........

By"He didn’t get any care because he refused the doctor."

That is awful. What would have been the solution? Presumably a male doctor could have been found- it just would have taken longer?

Incidentally, this happens to women too- my dd was asked by the police whether she wanted to be examined immediately by a man or wait for a woman.

I don’t have accept it actually, and have previously worked to raise awareness.

I don’t believe public places should be segregated.

What do you mean by public places? Does this extend to the likes of rape crisis centres and prisons? Or just changing rooms and loos?

I wish sex segregation wasn't necessary. But in countries without sex segregation, 90% of sexual crimes are opportunistic. When sex segregation is present, this drops to 10%. I think this should be examined fully, to be honest, rather than just thinking 'oh well most people aren't dangerous so what could go wrong'

Some people are dangerous drivers but we don’t ban everyone from driving.

I would define myself as a feminist, but I don't accept that equality means "sameness". I do feel that that gets lost on here sometimes. I think to pretend we are the same as men and that biological differences are a myth, does women a disservice.

I must admit to being quite perplexed about the sudden obsession about trans people on here. Firstly, I have never met a trans person, as far as I know. I am 41 and live in the middle of London. Secondly, surely 99.9% of trans people have a horrendous struggle, it's not something you do lightly. Yes, some men could just suddenly "identify" as a woman to get into women-only spaces, but really how much of an issue is this likely to be? If a man is a sex-offender, he probably won't bother presenting as a woman first, surely?

"don’t have accept it actually, and have previously worked to raise awareness."

So you believe that crime statistics are wrong?

No, Sorry I wasn’t clear. I don’t have to accept that there shouldn’t be funding for men’s services because all rapists are men.

Do you have teenage children, Paloma?

I'm starting to sound obsessed with that question, but honestly, look at almost any large secondary school round here and it will have at least one trans-identifying child.

Before mine went to secondary, I knew only two trans-identified people (both TIMs, one a young transitioner, one middle-aged). The first would probably have come under your description of the 'horrendous struggle, not done lightly'. The second... well, certainly it was an awful time for their wife and children.

I agree with you OP.

how much of an issue is this likely to be? If a man is a sex-offender, he probably won't bother presenting as a woman first, surely?

The problem is is that he won't need to 'present as a woman' (whatever the fuck that means) in order to identify as one. All he will need to do is fill in a form or even say the words "I am a woman" and he will be allowed to use the female facilities. If any woman objects to him being there, she will be the one in the wrong.

Theoretically speaking there has never been anything stopping a predatory men from going into female toilets but we would have been free to challenge him or report him and have him kicked out. I this law passes then we will not be able to do this.

They already have this law in the US and as a result of it, Danielle Muscato (google "her" if you don't know who "she" is) was able to take up space in a women's shelter. No hormones, surgery or dress necessary.

Yolo let me explain to you why I can no longer talk about feminism nice and politely. Women DIED, literally died to give you the rights and freedoms you enjoy today. They are the reason you can have your own bank account, they are the reason you get to own property, they are the reason your husband doesn't have the right to rape you, they are the reason you have access to birth control. It wasn't the nice lovely men who suddenly realised you're a human being and deserved the same rights, and for some reason it had just been over looked. No, it women dying, and fighting and shouting that gave you that.

Now I doubt very much you want to give up those rights do you? Yet you throw feminism back in their face because some feminist on the internet didn't say some men. Meanwhile men still commit 98% of all sexual violence, 96% of all violent crime, they still (if white) hold the majority of the wealth, they still kill 2-3 women every week in the uk, they still hold on to the majority of the more powerful jobs (again, if white). They do not, as a class support you or help you to become an equal and yet you speak up for them, you defend them.

Now why are you so quick to distance yourself from feminism, which has only given you rights, yet not to distance yourself from men? It's completely illogical, and frankly deeply insulting to those women who sacrificed themselves for you, who weren't scared to speak up and be judged by men for it.

The vast majority of feminists do not hate men, they do not think all men are rapists (it fact it's often mysogynists who speak about men like theyre animals who just can't help being violent/rapey etc), they love men and know good men. But that doesn't change what men as a class do.

Not all white people are racist, but white people still oppressed black people. Do you hear black people distancing themselves from the civil rights movement because it might offend white people?!

*man
*if

It would appear I’m now doing exactly what I said I wouldn’t do on this thread and attempting to justify my position. Dammit.

So to conclude, I do not identify with feminism but do hold some of the same beliefs.

on the don't know any trans people point. I do find it astonishing that anyone can have got to middle age and not met a trans person?

My son's high school has a female to male transitioned PE teacher. He ended term one year Ms [so and so] and returned Mr so and so, It's amazing the way the teenagers and pre-teens in the school have accepted this and I think it should teach adults a lesson in all honesty. I've also come across a male to female trans co -worker and I know of at least 2 children who have identified as the other sex at some point.

I live in a fairly quiet part of the world too.

I think the trans argument is really really problematic when it comes to feminism. Why should there be a 'trans' facility and why should trans people go in an area they don't identify with? I get that it's not nice for young women to be potentially sharing a facility with a predatory male but I think to effectively discriminate against trans people because there is a risk that this could be abused is very problematic.

"I don’t have to accept that there shouldn’t be funding for men’s services because all rapists are men."

I don't think anyone said you do, did they? All I said was that it's likely that there will be a woman doctor on call at a rape crisis center because the vast majority of clients will be women. Of course there should be services for men.