In not wanting to be a feminist

[tireddotcom72]

I know I’m not alone as have had this conversation with friends but does anyone else feel PC stuff is just going too far now. The gender stuff is confusing me - I’m female always have been always will be and perfectly happy that way I don’t want to identify whatever that means with anything else and change my mind or whatever the gender fluid thing is ( that really confuses me) I’m mum to a daughter - who when younger was a pink, princess, Barbie loving frilly dress wearing child. I loved her wearing pretty dresses and wanting pretty hair. I’ve always worked in female dominated jobs - through choice no one forced me from being little I wanted to be cabin crew, my parents would have preferred me to be a solicitor, accountant or doctor like my siblings but supported my decision to go into the beauty industry because that’s what I was happy doing.
When I was younger I was whistled at in the street, had my bum pinched in nightclubs etc I wasn’t offended or outraged.

I don’t want to live in a genderless world, I don’t want my teenage daughter being in gender neutral changing rooms, I don’t even like being referred to as someone’s partner I’m quite happy being called his girlfriend.

I don’t want to offend anyone with my probably old fashioned views - I’m not even old! But I’m getting fed up of constantly hearing and reading about what I should think and believe, i mean the latest fuss about Sleeping beauty ..... what will pc brigade want to ban next?

Well that’s just not true. My 8 year old has often come home from school, telling me about various class discussions around busting gender stereotypes, equality, discrimination. I hear her group of girl mates talking a lot about how “girls can....

See, what you're describing is different. Why shouldn't every woman be told that they can bust stereotypes, reach for the stars? So they should! Be an astronaut, an engineer, etc.....Damn right we should all be paid the same too.
OP - The gender stuff is confusing me - I’m female always have been always will be and perfectly happy that way I don’t want to identify whatever that means with anything else and change my mind or whatever the gender fluid thing is ( that really confuses me) I’m mum to a daughter - who when younger was a pink, princess, Barbie loving frilly dress wearing child. I loved her wearing pretty dresses and wanting pretty hair. I’ve always worked in female dominated jobs - through choice no one forced me from being little I wanted to be cabin crew, my parents would have preferred me to be a solicitor, accountant or doctor like my siblings but supported my decision to go into the beauty industry because that’s what I was happy doing.
Why is the OP's view any less valid as some perceive it not to be what a woman should be thinking?!

OP: "I don't really like the direction feminism is going; I enjoy a number of 'gendered' stereotypically female things, and I'm not personally offended by having my bottom pinched."

Mumsnet: "WTF is wrong with you???!!!! Non-feminists are thick as shit. It's your fault women are paid poorly and get raped by their husbands. I'll tell you what sort of boundaries you should have over your body, that's not for you to decide. You're fucking stupid and a terrible person to boot. You should be more like me because I'm a feminist and that makes all my opinions correct. If you don't want to join us you suck."

You might want to work on your recruitment strategy.

It's your fault women are paid poorly and get raped by their husbands

Nobody has said that, have they? Pointing out that equal pay and the illegality of spousal rape are direct consequences of the feminist movement is very different to victim-blaming a woman for being raped by her husband.

If it is necessary to wilfully misrepresent others’ comments in order to support your argument, your argument is fallacious.

You might want to work on your critical comprehension skills.

Pumpkin - she didn't ask Mumsnet for some background information on feminism. She stated her moronic views on AIBU and then what? Expected to be congratulated?! I don't know.

Yes, Pumpkin, I do. Brainwashed? Really, is that what you think feminism is about? They're the daughters of women that are role models and yes, these things come up - equal pay etc. They might not know everything but they know the opportunities are rightly out there for them. How is that so hard to understand.

No, pumpkin - responses on Mumsnet about feminism aren't the same as published papers and articles on feminism. Reading published papers and articles would give the OP a broad based fundamental background.

Do you really think in educated households 8 year olds are only being educated from the National Curriculum? So what if their mothers are teaching them about feminism? How is that brainwashing? So we've all been 'brainwashed' have we into thinking we're as good as men and deserve equality?

The one 8 year I was specifically thinking about is now at Oxbridge. I hardly think she was brainwashed at 8

Do you think we would have achieved the level of equality we have reached without feminism? Its a but like not joining a trade Union but being happy to benefit from what they've negotiated.
What do you think explains the gender pay gap - after controlling for qualifications, experience etc - if not male bias?
Please do nor conflate feminism with gender fluidity?
Why do people get get up about 'unisex' changing or bathrooms? From what I've seen this just means individual rooms that anyone can use so I don't see the problem

Originalfoogirl said "Well that’s just not true. My 8 year old has often come home from school, telling me about various class discussions around busting gender stereotypes, equality, discrimination. I hear her group of girl mates talking a lot about how “girls can...."

Pumpkin responds: "See, what you're describing is different. Why shouldn't every woman be told that they can bust stereotypes, reach for the stars? So they should! Be an astronaut, an engineer, etc.....Damn right we should all be paid the same too."

Really? "See what you're describing is different" - Originalfoogirl said her 8 year old is discussing "gender stereotypes, equality and discrimination" yet Pumpkin ignores that 8 years do discuss these things - even if it's perhaps prompted by one of those pesky brainwashing teachers. How is it different Pumpkin? And how is it brainwashing?

I wish I didn't have to be a feminist.
I don't understand why you wouldn't want equal opportunities to everyone else?

Can't decide whether the OP is a GF or just bit, er..thick and proud of it.

Why can I never type the "a" ? Grrrr.

I don't understand why you wouldn't want equal opportunities to everyone else?

This is what I find confusing: the OP is happy to proclaim that she has invariably had the same opportunities/pay as men, yet she is seemingly unaware of the fact that not so long ago she would not have had these rights, and is unable to do the ‘joined-up thinking’ necessary to understand how it came about that women gained these rights.

Do the ‘feminism? pah, what’s the point?’ brigade think that things changed overnight, and by some sort of magical process?

People keep mentioning Sleeping Beauty at the moment. In several of the source stories for the fairy tale, the prince finds her asleep, has sex with her while she is unconscious and she becomes pregnant as a result.

So, yes, it is a story about rape, just to clear that up.

Honestly, I think the op is just confused, she clearly doesn’t know the definition of feminism, because she wants to teach her daughter she can be anything she wants, have equal pay etc,

What she doesn’t like, as many of us don’t, is political correctness, and she is confused by and doesn’t like the trans gender issue.

However I also think if you don’t know what something is, be you Male or female, then google it and find out. Or start a thread saying what is feminism and we could have said it’s simply equal rights for men and women.

Nobody has said that, have they? Pointing out that equal pay and the illegality of spousal rape are direct consequences of the feminist movement is very different to victim-blaming a woman for being raped by her husband.

Ok, nobody's directly said it's her fault. But comments like "Then you must support spousal rape" are pretty close. And also wilfully misinterpret what the OP has said. But presumably none of them have to work on their critical comprehension skills because they're feminists and therefore beyond reproach.

Jesus Christ. Have you thought about educating yourself before writing such drivel?

I just can't get worked up about some of the issues that women on here froth at the mouth about...

Worst of mn this shit. Nasty feminists blah blah blah.

Op doesn’t want to know about feminism. Op puts it on a par with caring about brexit. Op is clearly a gf.

‘Someone once said on the internet men are nasty and now I think all feminists are horrible to men so I can’t support them’ Really? I know you want people (women) to be nicey nicey but this attitude is absolutely pathetic in adult women. If someone says something you disagree with you can ignore or challenge but you don’t simply write off a whole political movement that has improved millions of lives because a couple of anonymous posts on the internet say something you don’t like.

Why is the OP's view any less valid as some perceive it not to be what a woman should be thinking?!
Because the act of holding an opinion does not validate it. Much the same as merely stating you think the earth is flat/goblins make electricity does not mean people cannot point out the flaws and suggest some basic research - such as reading the definition of something before deciding to have an opinion on it. And if she does believe women are naturally inferior to men, she should be able to back it up or just post on a MRA website where they'd embrace that view and lack of research.

suggest reading the definition of something before deciding to have an opinion on it.

But that works a lot better for things like the shape of the earth which have been objectively proven, than for ideologies and political movements which are more abstract. People either believe in a given scientific fact or they don't, but with ideologies there's more of a spectrum. And if a lot of your experience has been with people at one extreme end of that spectrum then it's not unreasonable to feel like those extreme views define the ideology.
It's a bit like if you'd only ever met Christians from Westboro Baptist Church (or were in a situation where they were in the majority) you'd probably be reluctant to call yourself a Christian, even if you do actually fit the dictionary definition of one.
IME there are more militant and quite unpleasant feminists on MN than IRL, so I wouldn't identify as a feminist here to avoid being associated with their behaviours. But amongst my (quite reasonable, up-for-a-debate) friends, I would.

But if you did believe in Christ as the son of God, but not in the westboro church, then you could say I'm a 'roman Catholic/Mormon/Protestant etc'. You wouldn't state 'I'm not a Christian because I like the colour orange' .

Of course if your only exposure was to westboro and you didn't agree with them and were unable to use the internet/dictionary/media/education then you would be unaware of the definition of Christian , but that wouldn't mean your opinion is valid and should not be challenged

"I know 8 year olds with a better grasp of feminism than the OP.

No, you really, really don't. Unless you mean ones you've brainwashed personally as no 8 year old learns all this on the national curriculum. hmm"

So anything a child learns outside school is "brainwashing"? Blimey, your dinner table conversations must be restrictive - Romans, Victorians, the Water Cycle, all those new words for parts of speech I don't know, chunking and wedding ceremonies from different faith groups..........