AIBU to ask MNHQ if we can have a trans discussion section?

[Skarossinkplunger]

Out of the first 10 threads showing on my AIBU page 4 of them are trans threads. There is seriously no escaping, please can they have their own board?

Indeed, and plenty more where that came from. The woman's weightlifting champion in NZ is a male-bodied person who transitioned very recently. Lauren Jeska, UK fellrunner now serving a prison sentence for attempted murder after stabbing a UK Athletics official who was looking into the international rules on transgender runners and might have (not even had) had to tell Jeska that running internationally as a woman was no longer a realistic prospect.

Some young sportswoman would have not been selected for that team so that a Middle Ages man could take her place

But judging by the photo, surely the team are more successful?

Dont forget Fallon Fox.

A man that is paid to beat up women.

But judging by the photo, surely the team are more successful?

So having a man on the team which means the team win is fair to the other teams that compete that are all women so do not have the male advantage. Whats the point in having womens sports then?

I hate the fact society is moving to a place where any debate is shut down, this is why Brexit & Trump were a surprise.

Or because people thought the left-leaning view they saw on social media was shared by all.

A lot of people live in a bubble on social media. They follow people who think the same way they do on Twitter, they have people on Facebook as friends for the same reason, they mute or block or unfriend those they don't agree with and they don't look at the mainstream media any more where they might be exposed to alternative points of view and information their friends and followers have disregarded because it doesn't fit their narrative. Not healthy.

That's why I think the current position where people can post about these issues in AIBU or Chat if they want should be maintained. It's very, very easy to move on to another thread if you're not interested in the one you've just opened. Or start your own riveting parking thread.

Yes Grumpy and if you replaced all sportswomen with men women's sport would see better speeds/records/wins but there would be no actual sportswomen surely you can see that?

YANBU, OP. It's exhausting.The threads are echo chambers, populated by the same names saying the same things and endlessly agreeing with each other, and anyone with a contradictory opinion is soon chased off, compounding the echo chamber effect. I understand (from MNHQ's perspective) why these threads are allowed to stand and I don't think it will change any time soon but in the meantime, I believe that many women are being put off posting.

I'm a feminist but I would never ever post on the feminism boards here because they have become such a hostile place. I rarely open any thread in AIBU which mentions feminism or women's rights because the likelihood is that they will ultimately descend into yet another trans thread. It's definitely become more prevalent in the last year or so and allowing it to continue across multiple boards does make it feel like MNHQ are endorsing the promotion of a specific ideology.

Personally, I feel creating a section for trans discussion IS a good compromise but given the responses on this thread, that wouldn't be acceptable to the women who come here to talk about these issues and currently, MNHQ's stance (which it is completely entitled to hold) is to prioritise the feelings and opinions of those women. I believe that's misguided but ultimately the only way I can really protest is by leaving Mumsnet - but currently, the benefits outweigh the negatives for me.

If this trend for trans threads everywhere continues that might not be the case, but even then, unless everyone who wants to see a change votes with their feet, I suspect it's unlikely to happen. The anti-trans voice is a very loud one here.

No separate thread needed. Another one here who wasn't aware of the implications of the proposed new laws until reading threads on mumsnet.

No issues with transexuals. Massive issues with transgender MtF people who still have a penis, wanting access to women's refuges, women's prisons, women's sport. Would fully support them pushing for a third space ... unfortunately they're not.

So we should not care about predatory men in changing rooms after they were made 'gender neutral in Target stores in the US and is being proposed here?

I don't open them but it just means more to ignore

If only there was a way to hide such threads so you don't have to go to the physical trouble of ignoring.

I must say though I don't find it particularly onerous to just not open threads I am not interested in. And if the title isn't explanatory I open, think "ah not for me" and close.

No drama needed

Or that half of transgender prisoners are guilty of sex offences/Cat A prisoners and can be moved to female prisons?

fairplayforwomen.com/transgender-prisoners

I dont think there should be a separate topic

I think people should skip past the threads they dont want to read

And if there was a separate trans topic then i think that mumsnet should move every thing in aibu and chat

Possibly even get rid of those topics completely as i think 99.9 percent of threads should be on the correct board

anyone with a contradictory opinion is soon chased off

I have never seen this happen. What I have seen happen is that people who express a contradictory opinion are asked questions which they very rarely stick around to answer. I've seen any number of people drop into a thread on a transgender issues to announce that it's all bigoted nonsense and then they disappear without giving any examples of what they mean.

But judging by the photo, surely the team are more successful?

I am involved with rugby. Having a male identifying as a female on the team would mean my first thought was safety of my players from a possible injury perspective

And i dont know anyone in here who is anti trans

Mumsnet has millions of subscribers, even if posters are making up stuff about 100 people on here being anti trans it does not make mumsnet an anti trans forum...which people also keep saying

And i agree with gasps last post

I wouldn't have become educated on these issues if it hadn't been on the main AIBU page and I am very glad that I have been educated on it (although the world was a lot simpler and less scary when I didn't understand what was going on.) It took me a while to get from thinking 'bigot' and 'transphobe' to actually read what they were saying but eventually the sensible posters, with their reason and (actually true) facts got through to me.

The thing is, I had been seeing a lot of these issues coming up in my real life (I'm a lesbian so I think we are on the forefront of seeing the new breed of entitled/creepy men identifying as lesbians, the erasure of women's spaces, lesbian orientation being seen as problematic and exclusionary of people with penises, younger lesbians being transed).

I think the reasons it took me so long to realise this are:

a) I'd known traditional transsexuals for 20 odd years, socialised with them, shared the ladies' toilets with them etc so felt I 'knew' from experience that there was no problem with this stuff. Even though I was starting to see the effects of the new wider meaning of trans coming through, it took quite a while to get my head round the fact that this was something completely different.

b) the gay press and LGBT social media lied and misrepresented constantly on this issue. Just as a small example, this story in the past week of Anne Ruzylo, a butch lesbian who was harassed and hounded out of her job as Women's Officer by two transactivists who also mocked how she wasn't as feminine as transwomen - I read an article in the gay press on this which presented it as a vulnerable transwoman getting a nasty bigot out and the story mentioned the gender identity and sexual orientation of everyone else in the story except Anne ie misleading their gay readership that this was about the LGBT 'community' standing up to 'anti-LGBT' people when it was about a butch lesbian being harassed, hounded and mocked.

c) this kind of discussion is being silenced pretty much everywhere else - It's getting slightly better now but I have learnt so much from some of the wise posters on Mumsnet. I used to believe (because I was deliberately led to believe it) that those opposing this 'progress' on trans issues were right-wing Christians who were anti-LGBT. I wouldn't have sought out opinions on a trans board on here because I wouldnt have thought there were any valid opinions for me to listen to.

The anti-trans voice is a very loud one here.

I don't think many here are actually anti-trans. We do get the odd actual transphobic post pop up every now and then though, which is deleted fast.

Its more, that people are 'pro-women', than 'anti-trans'.

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g It's pretty exhausting (and pointless) arguing with a dozen people who hold fundamentally different views to you and always will. I'm not looking to change anyone's mind - I don't believe it's possible on this issue - but I would really love to not have to stumble across transphobic threads every day (I appreciate to the people posting on these threads, they're not transphobic, but from my perspective they are). I deliberately avoid trans threads (apart from this one obviously, which was originally more "site stuff" than a trans thread, if you see what I mean) but I still end up seeing them because a) they're everywhere and b) they're not always obvious from the title (or indeed the original post).

To be honest, I think I would feel the same if there was a proliferation of threads on any one particular hot-button political issue, regardless of my own personal stance.

@BatShite Argh, I tried very hard to avoid using ANY controversial terms in that post as I knew they would be picked up. From my perspective they are anti-trans but I take your point and wish I'd found a better way to phrase it.

Or because people thought the left-leaning view they saw on social media was shared by all.

We are a bit shouty. Those entrenched in power don't have to be.

What the left is shouting about is this terrible Tory austerity. Brutal, ideological cuts that are hitting poor women, disabled women and sick women the hardest.

We will continue to march and shout. People are dying by the thousands.

This trans debate is important and timely and a lot of people here are making some good points. But could you guys quit sneaking in these kicks?

Its more, that people are 'pro-women', than 'anti-trans'.

Brilliantly put

Why does everything need to be filtered away into polite little boxes? Half of the sub forums on here are completely dead and devoid of active posts.

An important topic needs to be discussed and not closed down. It needs input from both sides - freely and not hidden away somewhere that people need to search out. Most people who have reached peak trans aren't posters who orginally seek out the feminism boards.

What next a CF neighbour and parking section? How about a "my tradesman did a shit" section. Sheesh.

Malcom: I couldn't care less who is in the cubicle next to me and what's between their legs.

That's nice for you. I do. So I suggest we keep it separate as you don’t care and I do.

As for not daring to report on it, Jenny Murray is not allowed to take part in conversations about trans anymore. A middle aged woman has had to leave her job because of harassment organised by a TIM, who has taken up the equivalent woman only job despite being 19 and not a natal female.

So... yes, I think it’s worth talking about in public and not shuffled off to a corner.