AIBU to ask MNHQ if we can have a trans discussion section?

[Skarossinkplunger]

Out of the first 10 threads showing on my AIBU page 4 of them are trans threads. There is seriously no escaping, please can they have their own board?

So if the Bill is only at a preliminary consultation stage, it's a long way off and may never happen?

It will be a government bill (unlike Miller's gender identity bill that ran out of time last year) and it has cross-party support. I think it's very likely to happen, especially if we're all complacent because 'it's a long way off.' It's not a long way off, we're at the consultation stage - now is the time for us to say what we think.

"Why do TRA and MRA have such a sneery tone when surely its equivalent from your perspective is 'feminist'?"

IMO MRAs are mostly misogynists and their posts clearly tell you why. TRAs, I agree partly. There are people who want transpeople to have rights while not eroding the rights of women. The aforementioned Miranda Yardley being a shining example. What do you suggest as a term for those people on FB and Twitter saying, "die terf/cis scum" and similar. And those who suggest that lesbians have to accept penises or they are bigots?

BTW if you agree with most of my posts about shelters and refuges you are probably a 'terf' according to many. Sorry.

I didn't say trans people were all trying to abuse women. Did I? I've looked over my post... I do think there are a lot of men who would use this to abuse women.

Women / men in prisons is another matter entirely but I have first hand professional knowledge of what it takes to get into a maximum security women's prison. It might be my own shortcoming but those people are beyond sympathy.

You disgust me. This is truly, truly nasty.

The great majority of women in prison are not there for violent or sexual offences and a lot of them will have been subject to sexual/emotional/physical abuse, mostly from men. I don't know that it's feasible for sex offenders currently in male prisons to transfer to a Cat A prison for women. Aren't there regulations about not having prisoners too far from their families? Are we sure they wouldn't just be transferred to a general female prison?

I can't for the life of me see that is a good idea to let a predatory sex offender be transferred to a prison full of vulnerable, damaged women.

You didn't address "Why do TRA and MRA have such a sneery tone when surely its equivalent from your perspective is 'feminist'?"

I have yet to see the equivalent of 'Hurry up and die already' from feminists on Twitter in my travels down that rabbit hole. This seems the norm from Trans activists though. It was to an MP.

I’ve read about half the thread. What I cannot get my head around are some posters who just come on these threads and actually lie. Someone way back this morning said that the gender critical posters “insult and attack” those who disagree with them. I have never seen this. I have seen disagreement and multiple attempts to discuss concerns. Then there are the ones shouting about “hate” and “bigotry” when I have also never seen that. Only ever concerns and attempts at discussion. I despise those constant cheap shots that attempt to prevent free discussion around trans issues and I feel so grateful that there are informed and irrepressible posters here who will not allow themselves to be shut down by being shamed and just keep going and going and insisting on their right to speak.

And in answer to the OP. No there shouldn’t be a trans forum, pushed away like some dirty little secret.

@Terrylene I suspect this is due to confirmation bias. It's everywhere. #killallmen trended.

No - this was from an activist that was a committee member of a trans organisation and who had been invited to give evidence to the women's and equality committee.

You just do not see anything like that from the equivalent women and feminists. At all. They give intelligent and thoughtful responses. They take their personal public profile seriously.

I'm sure someone said recently that there aren't any Cat A female prisons? Anyone remember/know?

I've worked in prisons, and I do not view prisoners as sub-human. I don't know many prison officers who share your views Malcolm, either - they might not regard them as shining beacons of upstanding citizens, but they don't see them as sub-human.

I care very much about women's sports. It's taken decades to get to the point where we get even a fraction of the coverage, money and interest in women's sports as men's. No-one who describes themselves as a feminist could surely support a situation where women are excluded from all but a minority of sports because of biological men taking their place through dint of, er, biology.

I can't believe you have really thought about bathrooms and changing rooms if you believe the implications to be inconsequential. Sure, in another world where all changing rooms had solid walls and lockable doors, and all bathrooms were self-contained cubicles, it wouldn't matter nearly so much. But we aren't in that world at the moment, so it really really does matter.

For all the people who are sick and tired of seeing the trans threads, don’t you wonder why they are happening?

Many of the women who post on them are lawyers, doctors, journalists and politicians. Surgeons, people involved in education and childcare. Lots and lots of women who are involved with vulnerable children and adults.

They are not having a knee-jerk reaction. They’re not bigots or zealots.

They’re not one eyed neither are they uninformed.

Many are parents, homemakers, careerists. Normal people.

The last thing they want to do is have to devote their valuable time to sharing information, asking questions, coming to conclusions, and drilling down into this.

It’s a massive pain in the arse for most.

If you have read the threads, looked at the stats, analysed the research and still disagree, I totally understand. And there is nothing more to say about it to you.

However I’ve never called anyone stupid or insulted them when they have disagreed with me.

Largely because generally people are rational and fairly decent. If they disagree with me, over this issue, I’m sure most are coming from a place of sincerity. Those who aren’t, again, I have nothing else to say.

But anyone who has a genuine disagreement over this I wish you would engage. With me. It won’t degenerate into a bunfight.

I know transwomen who are delightful. As do a lot of people.

But I profoundly disagree with the ideology. And the trajectory that it is on.

Malcolm
"Perhaps threads would actually be engaging and create an environment where opinions can change if rather than making sub-forums, we could hide posts from people like @AssignedPerfectAtBirth"

No - the point of this thread was to hide the conversation in a corner, because people can't be arse seeing them in Active. NOT to engage people in the subject, but to hide it. That's why I was angry, You can't see past winning the 'argument' to see why such a thing would make someone angry.

I have been raped, sexually abused, sexually harassed, beaten to a pulp, emotionally abused, and gaslighted to on a grand fucking scale and I have every fucking reason imaginainable to fear males in changing rooms. And yes, I will go out of my way to protect other girls and women from predatory males who will take advantage of Gender Self Identity to prey on the vulnerable, in changing rooms, rape crisis centres and women's shelters.

I will also not stay quiet when young children are being persuaded to butcher and sterilise their young healthy bodies and sentence them to a life on medication.

So yes, my original post was that people were self centred for objecting to these threads, because there is a hell of a lot at stake, just to silence people because they annoy you

So if you are offended, I could not give even the smallest fuck. Because those vulnerable people are more important than me speaking nicely to you.

And as far as it goes, my posts are generally civil. But this thread lit the touchpaper for me. Now I am going to have to namechange and deregister because I don't tell people about my past on social fucking media.

HMP Bronzefield in Surrey is a Cat A prison for female prisoners and young offenders. I think it's the only one, though (not including secure mental hospitals)

I love Rhonda Rousey's reply when asked about her earnings compared to a high earning man's. She took responsibility and said that when she's as watchable and gets as many views as the men, she'll then expect equal payment

Don't you think that there's a chicken and egg scenario here, though, that there have been decades of chronic underinvestment in female sports (leading to many talented athletes not being able to pursue their sport at the highest levels), coupled with a dearth of media interest (and therefore a corresponding lack of sponsorship interest - and therefore a lack of money.....), so women's sports is not at the level it should be in many many disciplines.

Then there is the argument that men's and women's sports are different and shouldnt' necessarily be compared to each other: different doesn't mean that one is better than the other, just because we have been brought up viewing men's sport as the default

Just because someone is a vile criminal doesn't mean they deserve to be put at risk of rape. I work in an ED ward near a prison, the serious cases came to see us, we treated them with dignity because they are still human no matter what they have done.

You still disgust me.

*worked
I don't anymore

It doesn't even make sense. Surely if someone is a sex offender and therefore subhuman and it's okay for them to be at risk of rape, there's no need to move the Male sex offenders who claim transgender status in the first place?

Oh and thank you olenna

AssignedPerfectAtBirth

I totally understand your anger.

The thread on AIBU about Lily Madigan has infuriated, and scared many, many women who had not realised the extent of this problem.

When an adolescent boy is made women’s officer under the Labour Party, despite calling himself Jimmy Savile’s apprentice, linking to rape.com and making blowjob faces on social media and breaching labour’s own guidelines, as he is not legally a woman, I defy anyone to not give a toss.

And in answer to the OP. No there shouldn’t be a trans forum, pushed away like some dirty little secret.

Best get rid of all sub forums then if you think that's what happens.

Shock horror, two people don't agree on every point. How does that advance your position

The position was that there are often a lot of statements on trans threads that are inaccurate and can easily be challenged. Statements from all sides - although it's rare to hear different voices on here giving a different perspective on things. It can be a bit of an echo chamber on here sometimes.