AIBU to ask MNHQ if we can have a trans discussion section?

[Skarossinkplunger]

Out of the first 10 threads showing on my AIBU page 4 of them are trans threads. There is seriously no escaping, please can they have their own board?

YADNBU! Absolutely no reason why those threads shouldn't have a section and anyone who is offended by threads being grouped into an easy to find section must have a lot of time on their hands

S'ok Vixky. I may be mad on this thread, because well it made me mad. I am not the reason that people are moaning about these threads, and it's a lazy argument to claim that. No skin off my nose tbh. I get far worse on twitter when I'm being polite, because I say no to this shit.

Malcolm
"You have no right to demand changes"

Actually, it's not women who are doing the demanding. It's males.

So they have the right, but not females? Is that right?

As for the rest of the growing up stuff, I'm a fully grown woman and as long as I don't break MN guidelines, I'll say what I like. And I'm not here to be nice to you. So thanks, but no

it's male pattern violence to blame
Indeed - but in my opinion, these are women being forced into male spaces, not men trying to push their way into women-only spaces, so we're always going to inherently disagree on this one.

Some men who identify as trans are violent.
Yes. Lots aren't.

Many women who have experienced sexual abuse prefer to avoid being close to a male-bodies person while in a state of undress.
Yes. In my opinion (as a woman who has experienced sexual abuse), this also includes the many transwomen who have been sexually abused and should therefore be afforded the same privilege. I believe there is an argument to be made for women-only spaces to be reserved for transwomen who have gone through gender reassignment surgery but for that to be a consideration, gender reassignment surgery needs to be more readily available on the NHS, and that opens yet another can of worms on threads like these.

I don't have the stats
No. Nobody ever does on these threads. They just swallow propaganda whole and regurgitate it, which is why it's impossible to debate rationally.

I've not seen anyone conflate it.
Someone conflated it right below you.

Don't you think, though, that there should be research into the reasons why there has been a huge increase in the number of people who are transitioning?
Possibly, although I would assume it's for the same reason that more people are coming out as homosexual - we live in a more tolerant society (in general) where people feel more able to live as their true selves.

Don’t conflate concern about TAs agenda with a lack of concern for people who genuinely have gender/sex disphoria
I have no problem with people criticising militant trans-activism. But that's far from the only thing that happens on these threads.

As its not impossible to ignore those posters you feel are problematic, just debate with others on the thread
I don't ever engage with these posters, but unfortunately they tend to shout the loudest (as is the case on this thread). I suspect there's also a lot of sockpuppetry that goes on.

I hope that by responding I've proven that I'm not backing out because I can't back up my points, but because I do not wish to discuss trans issues on Mumsnet, for all the reasons I gave earlier in this thread. It's also derailing OP's thread which was intended as a discussion of whether trans posts should be grouped in one place, not yet another trans post in itself!

@AssignedPerfectAtBirth

You're right, you don't have to be nice to people. I get the feeling this would be an unrealistic demand anyway.

You ignored me asking if you think your rude and agressive posts help your cause. Do you think you do or are you more likely to turn people off.

Have you heard of Wheaton's Law?

Malcolm

I am often nice. And today I am mad. I seriously object to being 'tidied' away to a corner of Mumsnet, just because someone is irritated by a line in Active.

I'm sorry you don't like my anger today. That's your problem, not mine. I will express myself as I see fit. If you want to campaign for my 'cause' then do. If you want to argue against it, then do. If you think I'm being detrimental to my own 'cause' then all the better for you eh?

But I will choose my own words. Thanks for the advice

Peachgreen, trans people aren't being attacked and assaulted because of a refusal to give them access to women's changing rooms.

That's a very topsy-turvy way of presenting things. Women are not responsible for male violence. If transwomen are being attacked in men's toilets the problem is male violence and guilting women into giving up sex segregated spaces which exist for our dignity, privacy and safety may be the easy answer for society but it's an answer which prioritizes men at the expense of women in order to deal with an issue that men are responsible for. That's misogyny.

Here's the thing with having a trans board

1. What do you call it "Trans talk" or something? Then does it become a place where any criticism of trans is immediately shut down as it is seen as "their space"? But would it equally be the place gender critical people or people with concerns are told to shove off to, only to be told they can't post there because it is the trans space?

1. If MN called a specific area "gender critical" or something similar, imagine the press and hate campaigns they would face. Right now they can say it's individual posters not their policies/views but the second they put up a specific board that houses only debate about a "protected people" then they'll face doxing, SWATing and maybe even in months to come legal action. Having posters being gender critical on the boards, from a PR viewpoint is one thing but having a gender critical labelled area on your site in such a climate is business suicide.

Stop shutting down critical thinking.

No. Nobody ever does on these threads. They just swallow propaganda whole and regurgitate it, which is why it's impossible to debate rationally.

It was you who claimed that

I'm disgusted that vulnerable transwomen are being abused and assaulted because others refuse to allow them access to women's bathrooms and changing rooms.

Do you have any stats on this out of interest or have you just swallowed propaganda whole and regurgitated it in the same way you accuse of there of doing?

Just I have never seen any evidence that trans women are at huge risk of attack in male areas. Where I have seen plenty of evidence that men saying they are trans women (and we cannot tell who is genuine trans and who is not unfortunately, or else this issue would be easy) have attacked women in female areas.

Do you have any stats on this out of interest or have you just swallowed propaganda whole and regurgitated it in the same way you accuse of others of doing?

Totally agree with you MakeMisogynyAHateCrime

Assignedperfectatbirth I’m seriously impressed that you know more about what’s going on in my head than me.

I am often nice. And today I am mad. I seriously object to being 'tidied' away to a corner of Mumsnet, just because someone is irritated by a line in Active.

I have not said I am irritated with them, I simply asked if it needed it’s own discussion board because there are so many of them.

There really aren't that many of them, considering it is a controversial topic and that legislation is on the horizon.

There are far more on MILs and cats.

I think we really need it. It really hurts me to see such ignorence around transfer people

Eleanor
Where is the ignorance? Can you educate us?

Thanks so much Malcolm but no I don't think I will.

It's your piss poor black and white proposition dearie. So no. Thanks though

Trying to pigeon/hole trans discussions into their own forum will be harder to do than trying to keep transmen out of women's spaces.

What ignorance, EleanorXx?

I think we really need it. It really hurts me to see such ignorence around transfer people

It really isn't a case of whether people are being nice and inclusive or not. It is about a change in the law and whether the implications of those changes have been properly thought through properly, if at all.

We should not be bringing in laws in a democratic country under the radar, without consulting all affected groups. So far, the government seems to have talked to a few activists who are probably not even representative of all trans people at all.

Do you think someone could post a thread here involving someone who was trans (in Style and beauty for instance) without being shouted down for being trans?

You are aware there are no few MNetters who are very sane transwomen and post regularly all over the boards, not just in the trans topics? Rather like there's lots of male MNetters. Many of whom just get on with posting and mostly you never know who's male or female in a thread because it doesn't matter.

On the occasion that a thread appears where the OP announces themselves as a man here to talk to The Women, the OP is usually being a twat and has his behind handed to him in about 2 pages.

I would have no idea about the whole trans lobby political situation if it wasn't for MN. I started from the 'lets be nice' pov to realising there is far more to this than equality for friends and acquaintences who are non political trans people with dysphoria just living their lives and as worried about this mess as everyone else. Please don't silence women or prevent them from hearing about real concerns because it bores you.

I have no time for cunty neighbour threads.
The neighbours (mine and those of friends/family) I all know are lovely, therefore I refuse to acknowledge that anyone has a problem with people they live near.
I bet they're all bigots who hate their neighbours for some unknown bigotty reason.
They should have their own area of mn as I'm so sick of seeing the same threads over and over again.