Who is in the right?

[Rinmybell]

Firstly, this is about someone who is terminally ill, I don't know if it needed a trigger warning but thought I'd say in case people wished to stop reading here.

At uni I have a student in the same class, who has a life limiting condition. They are very poorly and at times it has been very touch and go. This is their second attempt at Uni. The first attempt, they lost a family member to the same illness and became very ill, also. So they dropped out. We will call them A.

Last week during seminar, A flagged up that another student (B) was ill. They were coughing and to their ears it sounded like a chest infection - which is very dangerous for A.
A spoke with the teacher and explained that one of them would have to go home. Teacher explained to B who was very upset and angry - and insisted they would not be going home, it would have to be A.
A is now very upset that extra provisions were not made for them - they have a lot of time off due to their preexisting condition and shouldn't have to take more time off for someone else's illness.
B, is cross also because they feel like they in themselves were well enough to attend, and they are not responsible for A's health.
A has now contracted a chest infection. Can't prove it was from B, but an email has now been sent out to all in the class that if any of us or children present with respiratory illness we are to stay at home.
This has now caused an outrage as people have complained today they've had to miss out today, as they have coughs.
There is another person in the class who's child also suffers with a life limiting illness, so they too agree that this should be the policy.
There is now quite a divide and people don't really know where they stand.
I already know what I think - but have been told IABU, so would kind of liked to know what others think.
So who is BU in your opinion?

(also I'm pretty sure you don't mean seminal)

There is no suggestion that there is a lip reader in this seminal group. If there is, obviously another solution would have to be found.

What kind of “suggestion” do you need? They’re not obliged to reveal it to their classmates.

Luckily, wearing a mask is not a “reasonable adjustment”. And if A won’t even treat their health issues seriously enough to wear one, it’s a bit rich to expect anyone else to.

My concern is that A will lose the goodwill of her peer group if she (or OP) try to push the issue.

There's some sort of irony about a situation where everyone wearing masks is a solution to masking (ha!) one individual's [immune] disability, yet unmasks another individual's [hearing] disability.

Get that videoconferencing set up already.

I think if you have to descend to picking up obvious auto corrects then you can't have much of an argument!

"What kind of “suggestion” do you need?"
The OP saying "No, masks wouldn't work because Jacob lipreads"

I don't need an argument as to why an entire university does not have to wear masks for one person, and I certainly don't need an argument to counter yours that anyone who wouldn't wear one should be barred from class, or where you called deaf people arseholes.

"What kind of “suggestion” do you need?"
The OP saying "No, masks wouldn't work
because Jacob lipreads"

Now you’ve missed the point.

As I said, other students are not required to divulge their disabilities to classmates. So A, B and OP would not necessarily know the hearing status of anyone else in the seminar group.

I have a long term compromised immune system & a disability so understand A's position however you have to come to practical ways to deal with it and not expect others to change for you because life is just not going to work that way.

I've been like this for 20years so I've had a long time to get my head round it and come up with ways to get on everyday. I would have sympathy if B had come in with chicken pox or the flu but a cough/cold/ chest infection to be fair are inevitable at this time of year and you can come in contact with them everywhere. So I wouldn't expect them to stay away although if they knew they had something it would be good to give A a heads up so they could decide what they wanted to do.

University wasn't such an issue for me but now I have kids I have to be more vigilant as the potential for picking up life threatening infection is so much higher.

'A' probably needs to sit down with their Drs and then again with their university tutors/disability service and work out practical ways of coping with the course and any reasonable adjustments that can be made (online content, good communication etc)

My DH is deaf and a lip reader but he doesn't mention it unless he has to e.g. if he needed to hear what you were saying but you were covering your mouth or looking the other way. He doesn't like to mention it. So there could easily be a lip reader in the class.

The parallel with a peanut allergy doesn't really work because with that you can bring in any lunch in the world so long as it doesn't contain peanuts. That's much less onerous than having to sacrifice your education for somebody else's.

If this was a work environment, and not university how would it play out?

Would A ask for all colleagues who have colds & coughs to stay off work? I couldn't afford to not come into work when suffering from a cold, I would lose my job if I did that each time.

I think A should be the one to stay at home and be provided with more support, as it seems sadly they are physically unable to withstand a normal (germ filled) environment.

An acceptable solution would be: A wears a mask all the time, other students wear one when they have a cold (even if not severe). Lecturer doesn't wear one as he has to be clearly audible to everyone, including lip readers.

An acceptable solution would be: A wears a mask all the time, other students wear one when they have a cold (even if not severe)

If it’s a seminar environment, other students will presumably be speaking.

That aside, I don’t think it’s inherently unreasonable to ask a student with a communicable illness to wear a mask during a seminar/class.

I just don’t think it could or should be enforced.

I think if B was contagious and knowingly attended they are very unreasonable. As anyone else would be.

I have an auto immune disorder which means my immune system doesn't work. I would be very angry if the Uni allowed someone who is knowingly contagious in lectures.

Unfortunately it is for A and the Uni to find reasonable adjustments to enable A to continue their studies.

Wednesday - what actually happens is people say they can't afford to be off, come in with every bug going including tonsillitis, chest infections, vomiting and then give it to the immunosuppressed person who then ends up at risk of losing their job
Past experience

An acceptable solution would be: A wears a mask all the time, other students wear one when they have a cold (even if not severe). Lecturer doesn't wear one as he has to be clearly audible to everyone, including lip readers.
Indeed. And we can all keep repeating ourselves on this. But A apparently doesn't want to do this (pretty sensible precaution in their position, i would have thought), so how can they expect others to take even more extreme measures (ie stay off with a cough alone) for them.
OP hasn't come back with a good explanation for this, so either A is extremely selfish/not as in danger from other's germs as implied / or this is a wind up.

Bloody hell, no, not a wind up at all!

I came on genuinely looking for answers/solutions/whatever.

I have raised a lot of these points today. A seems unsure. I think we are all inbetween a rock and a hard place.

A is wonderful and I couldn't bare to make them ill, but I can't miss time off for a cold. B was being selfish, they shouldn't of been in with an infection.

Also, A never said people shouldn't come in with colds - they wete concerned about the cough, later in the day confirmed to be risky.
It has been the letter sent out by the university (I don't know who else has received this. Only aware of it being this one seminar group so far)
The issue was that if it is practical work, it can't really be done over FaceTime. A lot of A's work is already sent to them.

Sorry to anyone who thought I was A, I am not. But I am concerned for them as would hate for them to have to drop out as I know what it means for them and I am very torn!

I tend to agree with A but I’m of the opinion if your sick in any way which is also contagious you shouldn’t be in groups of people. B had a chest infection - contagious.

We have people at work who come in with a stinking cold and within a week or so most of us have it and it takes ages to go because it’s just passed around. If first person stayed away then it wouldn’t spread.

It would be pretty useless for A to wear a mask. It is those who think they are contagious to wear one - to contain their germs. Not the other way round. That's why in hospitals it is staff who wear them, not patients.

I think A is being unreasonable.

B was not being selfish though. They had a cough which was later confirmed as a chest infection. Therefore implying they were under the impression it was just a usual cough. If it had felt really bad at the time no doubt they wouldn't have been there anyway.

But lots of people who have colds end up with a cough. Was there something special about this particular cough?

It must be difficult when you are immunocompromised, and I think it’s fair enough to ask nicely if people can please take sensible precautions. But the reality is that people are going to come in with various contagiois illnesses which aren’t dangerous to the vast majority. If someone wants to avoid all illness, they have to protect themselves from other people’s quite normal behaviour.

But how do you know it is a chest infection / contagious and not a simple cold? The first 3 days the symptoms are the same and the GP won't even see you most of the time.

My DD has an inborn immune deficiency. It would be obscene for me to dictate the attendance of every student in a school who is mildly unwell, and I would not deign to do so. And frankly, I can not diagnose a chest infection by listening to someone cough, either.

DD wears a mask when she is at risk of contracting an illness, it is our responsibility to manage her health, not the responsibility of every other student in her class/school.

But how do you know it is a chest infection / contagious and not a simple cold? The first 3 days the symptoms are the same and the GP won't even see you most of the time.

I cough, splutter, wheeze and sneeze my way through every winter. #welcometoasthma

If I stayed off work every time I had a cough, even a productive one, I'd never actually be in during the winter months.

So there's no chance I'd be staying off class in these circumstances. If that makes me "selfish", then guilty as charged.

The virus for a cold and chest infection I always thought was the same - its how the person responds so it actually makes not difference if B had a cold or chest infection as the virus is the same