Who is in the right?

[Rinmybell]

Firstly, this is about someone who is terminally ill, I don't know if it needed a trigger warning but thought I'd say in case people wished to stop reading here.

At uni I have a student in the same class, who has a life limiting condition. They are very poorly and at times it has been very touch and go. This is their second attempt at Uni. The first attempt, they lost a family member to the same illness and became very ill, also. So they dropped out. We will call them A.

Last week during seminar, A flagged up that another student (B) was ill. They were coughing and to their ears it sounded like a chest infection - which is very dangerous for A.
A spoke with the teacher and explained that one of them would have to go home. Teacher explained to B who was very upset and angry - and insisted they would not be going home, it would have to be A.
A is now very upset that extra provisions were not made for them - they have a lot of time off due to their preexisting condition and shouldn't have to take more time off for someone else's illness.
B, is cross also because they feel like they in themselves were well enough to attend, and they are not responsible for A's health.
A has now contracted a chest infection. Can't prove it was from B, but an email has now been sent out to all in the class that if any of us or children present with respiratory illness we are to stay at home.
This has now caused an outrage as people have complained today they've had to miss out today, as they have coughs.
There is another person in the class who's child also suffers with a life limiting illness, so they too agree that this should be the policy.
There is now quite a divide and people don't really know where they stand.
I already know what I think - but have been told IABU, so would kind of liked to know what others think.
So who is BU in your opinion?

Nobody is entitled to higher education. At best everyone is entitled to equal access to compete for a place in higher education, so the assumption is that the person is capable of undertaking their degree. If a disability is putting obstacles in the way of someone following their degree there is an obligation to make reasonable adjustments, but that doesn't mean that all adjustments are required to make everyone able to attend a degree.

Imagine someone who was unable to undertake manual labour due to their disability but wanted to do a degree involving manual labour, e.g. equestrian studies. The university would not be obliged to change the degree removing the manual labour element as that would not be a reasonable adjustment.

A is still entitled to a bloody education and a career that they can go far in

Nobody is entitled to either of those things.

Can't everyone in the class just wear a mask routinely?

yes but there right to an education cannot and should not be at the expense of others.

It is one thing to ask people to be thoughtful and considerate about coming in when they are feeling under the weather and/or ill and asking them to air on the side of caution rather than coming in. Its another to request the blanket ban that they have - that is putting other people's education and rights at risk.

The Human Rights Act (and Convention on Human Rights) is (other than the right to life/not be tortured etc) a balancing act that Im afraid does not work here

Uni students at this time of year seem to catch every bug going. Even the ones who aren't immunocompromised.

I feel very sorry for A, who I imagine is very frightened when they hear coughing, but they are not being realistic. If they need to avoid germs they need to avoid uni or at the very least minimise their exposure to risks.

I wonder what happens if the teacher gets a virus that lasts more that a week. They would need a doctor's note for what, to them, might be a very mild illness, but could be serious for A. I can't imagine a doctor agreeing to that, not to mention that the teacher's attendance record would be affected through no fault of their own.

OP, have you changed your mind after reading all the posts that were saying A was BU?
Not trying to attack you at all, just curious, as you still seem to defend A's position even though you asked for opinions 99% of posters disagree with you.

Another agreeing that Clandestino has a point. Your reaction to it, OP, seemed a bit aggressive. Are you actually A? I also notice you have not commented on numerous questions about why A cannot simply wear a facemask as a matter of course in these situations. Not infallible and doesn't solve all problems, but surely an option for someone apparently so worried about othet ppls coughs. And easier (and more fair) than pressuring numerous other ppl to stay off.

God it's a tough one and I wouldn't like to be making the decision but I think the sensible option is to serve the "masses" and not the few. So I reluctantly think A is BU.

Insisting people who have kids with coughs stay home is just ridiculous though (although I guess not many people do have kids?)

It really is a horrible predicament for A and her classmates, but the reality is it's not just A that need to be considered here?

I presume by your responses that you are A, OP?

I have the deepest sympathy for A. However, a university is not a charitable institution. It's not there to fulfil a bucket list wish, it's there to educate.

Actually they are charities, well many are anyway.

Yep, virtually all UK universities are exempt charities - the exempt bit means they're not regulated by the charities commission, and they are exempt because they come under the government department HEFCE instead. And of course we think of them as being different from charities, but they're not really - they take money from elsewhere, mostly HEFCE, and use it to educate rather than making a profit.

In fact most students don't realise that the fees they are paying are an appreciable but not huge part of their unis budget. I may have taken great pleasure in pointing this out when faced with an "but I pay your wages do what I say" er.

Um. That was possibly more information than is pertinent. Sorry.

I think the OP is definitely A.

I have sympathy for A, but she is being unreasonable. B, and every other classmate, is entitled to attend the classes they have paid for (barring any obvious contagious illness such as measles etc).

Are you A, OP?

Regardless of who A is. They are wrong in this scenario, but in need of support.

I am guessing A’s condition is life limiting but not in a terminal phase.. they want to live a life that is as full and as rich as they can, going to uni, having a career, being independent and having a social life. All of which are affected by their condition.

A needs psychological support as well as medical management and needs to learn strategies for managing their condition now they are a young adult and facing new challenges. A support group / charity for people in a similar position could be massively helpful.

Another one here who thinks A is being unreasonable.

Each of us is responsible for our own health. If we're unwell, we have to make a call as to whether we're fit enough to go about our daily business. That applies to A & B. If A has a cough, but otherwise feels OK, then she is within her rights to attend Uni. B should have taken into account when deciding if she was up to a Uni course, that this would inevitably mean mixing with other students who may or may not be carrying germs. That's for her to call.

She cannot dictate to others whether they should attend lectures or not. That is unreasonable.

I am not A, they are a good friend. As is B.

It is really really tricky. I'm immunosuppressed and will be for the rest of my life. I avoid obviously coughing/snotty people, and anyone who says they have tonsillitis as that's my weak point (chest infections or tonsillitis I tend to get v easily)
So people bringing stuff to work (different I know) means I end up ill, and then on a sickness stage where I can't go off sick for a year without triggering a higher stage
But I have to do it as I can't not work, I'm not entitled to any benefits/help etc so it's a fine line
Mostly I work and come home, I don't socialise any more

Its just shit that what works for the majority inevitably does not work for one individual. But as a society we have to go with what works for the majority, or life would grind to a standstill. But there is always that case of one person that tugs at your heart strings

A has now contracted a chest infection. Can't prove it was from B, but an email has now been sent out to all in the class that if any of us or children present with respiratory illness we are to stay at home

That is going to be incredibly difficult to enforce! What exactly do they define as ‘respiratory’ illness?

I would be hopping mad if my child was ill, I was fine but wasn’t able to come to my £9000 a year course! What if I missed something crucial? What if I became at risk of failing my course? The university would be wide open to legal action.

A couldn’t reasonably expect people in the workplace to make such adjustments for her-they would find people facing absence disciplinaries. Perhaps A should enroll on distance learning that she can do from her own home?

A is being unreasonable - they cannot dictate university rules and how others lead their lives.

This is really difficult. Having been through chemo and having a pants white count while running a youth group I understand the risks to A but you cannot insist you can only ask that people think and are considerate. Many will be where possible.

In my case I stayed away when my count was really bad and only asked that they kept children off if chicken pox/norovirus exposure had occured.

Surely video links could help if A is that vulnerable - they could pick up the same bug in the corridor or cafe so removing one poorly person won't negate the risks.

A really difficult situation for all

While I feel sorry for A, how would the solution proposed (that other students stay away if they/their families have respiratory problems) ever work in practice? For example, what would the university do if:

• C turns up to a lecture under the weather, refuses to leave and starts crying/having a breakdown because they are already struggling with the material and can't afford to fall further behind;

• D stresses that their ongoing cough is the result of allergies and they are not prepared to discuss it further/evidence this as it concerns a private medical matter they don't want to share with university staff;

• E argues that they always have a cough as a result of THEIR immunodeficiency issues and preventing them from attending classes would discriminate against their medical condition; or

• F, G and H refuse to submit work on the basis that it concerns a topic covered in lectures/classes that they were banned from attending and as such, are already at a disadvantage from the outset?

Is there a reason everyone just can't wear masks?