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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Who is in the right?

217 replies

Rinmybell · 20/11/2017 21:39

Firstly, this is about someone who is terminally ill, I don't know if it needed a trigger warning but thought I'd say in case people wished to stop reading here.

At uni I have a student in the same class, who has a life limiting condition. They are very poorly and at times it has been very touch and go. This is their second attempt at Uni. The first attempt, they lost a family member to the same illness and became very ill, also. So they dropped out. We will call them A.

Last week during seminar, A flagged up that another student (B) was ill. They were coughing and to their ears it sounded like a chest infection - which is very dangerous for A.
A spoke with the teacher and explained that one of them would have to go home. Teacher explained to B who was very upset and angry - and insisted they would not be going home, it would have to be A.
A is now very upset that extra provisions were not made for them - they have a lot of time off due to their preexisting condition and shouldn't have to take more time off for someone else's illness.
B, is cross also because they feel like they in themselves were well enough to attend, and they are not responsible for A's health.
A has now contracted a chest infection. Can't prove it was from B, but an email has now been sent out to all in the class that if any of us or children present with respiratory illness we are to stay at home.
This has now caused an outrage as people have complained today they've had to miss out today, as they have coughs.
There is another person in the class who's child also suffers with a life limiting illness, so they too agree that this should be the policy.
There is now quite a divide and people don't really know where they stand.
I already know what I think - but have been told IABU, so would kind of liked to know what others think.
So who is BU in your opinion?

OP posts:
Rinmybell · 22/11/2017 08:42

@BertrandRussell no, of course there isn't a reason. Something I would be happy to do, and I will suggest. However maybe difficult to enforce.

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 22/11/2017 08:45

Well, anyone who wouldn't wear a mask if it was provided for them is obviously an areshole who deserves to be locked out of the seminar room.........

shakeyourcaboose · 22/11/2017 08:53

But could someone not say wearing of the mask feels suffocating and triggers their anxiety? Have never had cause to wear one, so not sure of how thick they are. But again would this not have to be the same for whole student /staff body? Thinking of contact in corridors,loos any public points?

ButchyRestingFace · 22/11/2017 09:12

Is there a reason everyone just can't wear masks?

All the time? Or just when someone has an infection? (in which case, why would everyone have to wear them?

And who would have to wear them - just the students in A’s classes, the students in the canteen, the canteen staff, admin staff in A’s department?

The list is endless. It’s a totally unworkable “solution” and I suspect students/staff would simply refuse.

SuperBeagle · 22/11/2017 09:30

But A has already said that they won't wear a mask, so that voids the mask proposition.

ButchyRestingFace · 22/11/2017 09:35

I think they do use a mask in a few situations, but it is not always practical - and I think also A finds it quite difficult because you wouldn't know from an outside perspective that they were ill. The mask to them 'marks' them if that makes sense, I also don't know how effective the mask is in their case.

So A shouldn’t have to wear a mask because they find it “difficult” and it “marks” them, but everyone else should have to?

No chance.

HermionesRightHook · 22/11/2017 09:41

It is absolutely not up to any of the students in the room to come up with a solution to this. It is the university's responsibility to provide a reasonable accommodation to A.

Either:

  • they have not done that and the lecturers have taken it upon themselves to c cone up with a poor solution
- A doesn't like what the relevant team have agreed with them and has persuaded the lecturers to go beyond the reasonable accommodation agreed (which they should not have done)
  • or the university have put this "everyone stays off when..." in place as a reasonable accommodation (which I doubt, because it isn't, for the reasons outlined).

Either way, if I were a student on the course I'd be talking to the SU about it. It is hideously unfair that A has to experience life with this condition but the restrictions it is placing on other students, when there's apparently nothing in place to allow them to virtually attend classes, is not reasonable.

BertrandRussell · 22/11/2017 10:07

"So A shouldn’t have to wear a mask because they find it “difficult” and it “marks” them, but everyone else should have to?

No chance."

You miss the point. If everyone wore one nobody would be marked out or "different". It seems like a perfect solution to me.

ButchyRestingFace · 22/11/2017 10:40

You miss the point. If everyone wore one nobody would be marked out or "different". It seems like a perfect solution to me

Really? Sounds insane to me.

LivLemler · 22/11/2017 10:41

No medical knowledge here, but I think wearing masks isn't particularly effective. And it would also be costly as they are disposable and new masks would be required often (daily?) to keep them effective.

Like I say, no knowledge, just dimly recalling something I read when swine flu was a thing.

Butteredparsn1ps · 22/11/2017 10:45

In some parts of Asia wearing a face-mask, (for example on public transport) when suffering from a respiratory illness is considered a courtesy to others. A could request that their fellow students wear masks when unwell as a similar act of kindness, but can't reasonably insist upon it.

But. I still think there is more to this. There is a whole body of research on the challenges of supporting adolescents and young adults with long-term health needs. A has likely had a condition that means their childhood has probably been very different to their peers; they possibly lack emotional maturity whilst having typically adolescent concrete thinking.

The seemingly unreasonable demand looks to me like A isn't coping. I really think they need support with the burden of managing their disease as an independent young adult.

Clandestino · 22/11/2017 10:50

They are 'terminal' but they have every intention of living life to the fullest.

They can't live their life to the fullest if every sneeze or little cough from their mates, passengers on the public transport etc. potentially endangers their wellbeing and life. A is expecting for everybody to put their lives on hold during winter because tbh, I work in an open space office and at least half of the people are coughing or sneezing right now because of the weather. It's unavoidable. Nobody came up with the idea to send the people home because of that.

LeeksPotatoes · 22/11/2017 10:50

You miss the point. If everyone wore one nobody would be marked out or "different". It seems like a perfect solution to

If A was in my class I couldn't give two hoots if they needed to wear a face mask. I would, however, be a bit peeved if I had to wear one to disguise the fact they needed one - even more so if it was because they wouldn't wear one!

Plus, don't they make discussions/watching lecturers a bit awkward?

shutitandtidyupgitface · 22/11/2017 10:50

You miss the point. If everyone wore one nobody would be marked out or "different". It seems like a perfect solution to me

Everyone in every class, for four years? Everyone in the library, the corridors, the canteens?
doesn't sound like any kind of perfect solution at all.

ButchyRestingFace · 22/11/2017 10:55

Plus, don't they make discussions/watching lecturers a bit awkward?

The entire class and lecturer wearing face masks would be discriminatory against any student or lecturer in the class with a hearing loss if the mouth area is obscured by the mask.

A D/deaf or HoH person (1 in 6 of the population) needing to lipread the lecturer/students would be unable to do so.

Thankfully, the mask “solution” wouldn’t fly for all the reasons already enumerated.

FritzDonovan · 22/11/2017 11:18

If A was in my class I couldn't give two hoots if they needed to wear a face mask. I would, however, be a bit peeved if I had to wear one to disguise the fact they needed one - even more so if it was because they wouldn't wear one!
Yup. A needs to wear one (but won't). No-one else (bar coughers) needs to wear one, so why should they? After all this kerfuffle, and no doubt a lot still to come, A has well and truly marked themselves out as being different anyway. At least wearing a mask might show they were willing to make concessions rather than just putting the responsibility on everyone else. Sadly, it is their issue to deal with, no matter how understanding you might hope everyone else is - it beggars belief that nothing has been discussed or put in place at the start of the course in case of circumstances lile this. Coughs in winter? Who could have predicted that? Hmm

BertrandRussell · 22/11/2017 11:21

Wearing a mask doesn't seem to impede people performing brain surgery- I hardly think but will make taking notes difficult.....

ButchyRestingFace · 22/11/2017 11:29

Wearing a mask doesn't seem to impede people performing brain surgery- I hardly think but will make taking notes difficult...

Perhaps you missed the bit about mask-wearing making lipreading impossible?

And I hope surgeons performing brain surgery are not talking continuously for the entire duration of the op.

BertrandRussell · 22/11/2017 11:31

Ah yes. The hypothetical deaf person. How about the hypothetical person allergic to whatever the mask is made of, and the person with religious objections to covering their faces? Grin

LeeksPotatoes · 22/11/2017 11:32

Wearing a mask doesn't seem to impede people performing brain surgery- I hardly think but will make taking notes difficult.....

But I take a seminar to mean a bit more interaction than just taking notes.

Plus, I'm not heaven hard of hearing but, I always find it useful to be able to see a speaker's mouth.

Mummyoflittledragon · 22/11/2017 11:34

The lecturer can’t easily wear a mask. It you’re interacting in a seminar, you can’t easily wear one either.

shutitandtidyupgitface · 22/11/2017 11:34

Ah yes. The hypothetical deaf person

There are actually real deaf people you know. Quite a lot of them, if you include all degrees of hearing loss. But apparently you would ban them all from their classes?

(Well, anyone who wouldn't wear a mask if it was provided for them is obviously an areshole who deserves to be locked out of the seminar room was what you said, if you've forgotten)

ButchyRestingFace · 22/11/2017 11:35

Ah yes. The hypothetical deaf person. How about the hypothetical person allergic to whatever the mask is made of, and the person with religious objections to covering their faces? grin

It’s not hypothetical. Hmm

Are you hard-of-reading or did you also miss that the statistic that 1 in 6 of the UK population have a hearing loss (1 in 5 in Scotland)?

BertrandRussell · 22/11/2017 11:36

There is no suggestion that there is a lip reader in this seminal group. If there is, obviously another solution would have to be found.

shutitandtidyupgitface · 22/11/2017 11:38

There is no suggestion that there isn't.