Who is in the right?

[Rinmybell]

Firstly, this is about someone who is terminally ill, I don't know if it needed a trigger warning but thought I'd say in case people wished to stop reading here.

At uni I have a student in the same class, who has a life limiting condition. They are very poorly and at times it has been very touch and go. This is their second attempt at Uni. The first attempt, they lost a family member to the same illness and became very ill, also. So they dropped out. We will call them A.

Last week during seminar, A flagged up that another student (B) was ill. They were coughing and to their ears it sounded like a chest infection - which is very dangerous for A.
A spoke with the teacher and explained that one of them would have to go home. Teacher explained to B who was very upset and angry - and insisted they would not be going home, it would have to be A.
A is now very upset that extra provisions were not made for them - they have a lot of time off due to their preexisting condition and shouldn't have to take more time off for someone else's illness.
B, is cross also because they feel like they in themselves were well enough to attend, and they are not responsible for A's health.
A has now contracted a chest infection. Can't prove it was from B, but an email has now been sent out to all in the class that if any of us or children present with respiratory illness we are to stay at home.
This has now caused an outrage as people have complained today they've had to miss out today, as they have coughs.
There is another person in the class who's child also suffers with a life limiting illness, so they too agree that this should be the policy.
There is now quite a divide and people don't really know where they stand.
I already know what I think - but have been told IABU, so would kind of liked to know what others think.
So who is BU in your opinion?

Even though B was a brat about the situation A should take themselves out of the situation to protect their own health.
Expecting others to be reasonable about their life limiting illness is expecting too much as not everyone has understanding or patience for people with chronic illness.
Although I have a great deal of understanding and compassion for A as I also have a compromised immune system.
The Uni should be able to provide video link for lectures when students are at risk.
Although I can see that the Uni would not take it too seriously if they do not understand/are not interested in A's or any other students long term health or disability issues.

That's a really hard one. I think if B genuinely had a chest infection they should have stayed off but been able to access the seminar in a different way (online?video link?) However if they just had a cold I can see they mught be a bit offended by being diagnosed by an unqualified student and told to stay away from something they have paid for. I do feel sorry for A though.

I have a friend with CF. She has a full time job in London, gets the tube etc. She has a lot of time off but obviously cant dictate who is allowed to come in to work or travel on public transport so it is difficult to avoid illnesses.

A good friend of mine in uni had what I assume is the same condition, and he has since passed away in his mid twenties. It's fucking serious, and it's not just that A couldn't catch a cold and get sicker than your average person, they legitimately could die from something very simple. And yes, A will already be on a tonne of meds and doing physio etc.

However. Presumably, someone with a minor sniffle could be just as dangerous to A as someone wth a bad chest infection, as it depends on the underlying germs, not the severity of the infected person's symptoms.

If B were going to A's home while sick, or socialising with them, that would be appalling. However I just don't think it's practical to tell everyone to stay home as soon as they have the slightest bug. Far better surely for the class to be aware and stay clear of those likely to be infected, practice good hygiene etc.

We were never asked to make accommodations for our friend although we were sensible about it. I'm asthmatic and never would've been in otherwise!

Have loved and lost someone with a life limiting illness.
It’s not really a “being unreasonable “ sort of question.
However, at a University- which A chose to go to - rather than school, A is being unrealistic to expect B to stay off.
I agree that the University should consider alternative ways of delivering lectures to those who are made extremely susceptible to infection with catastrophic consequences for them.
But it is not legally required to.
By the way, I have MS and am particularly vulnerable to infections myself.

The University is legally required to make 'reasonable adjustments' for disability! Most universities have a whole department dedicated to disabilities and these adjustments (as they also include learning difficulties such as dyslexia). I have had students on my courses who are blind, use a wheelchair, have CFS/ME or other chronic conditions, MS, and a host of mental illness issues. These students have learning plans specifically created to level the playing field as much as possible.

That's why I don't think this is a big uni with a medical school, they would have a dep't and procedures to help them comply with the legislation.

I also think it isn't as they would have lecture capture (video) and alternative arrangements for practicals/tutorials.

This could be accommodated at my uni without blanket bans on people with coughs coming into class.

In other words, the institution has the responsibility, not the individual students.

As some of you know, I post this as someone with a terminal illness and compromised immune system from both my illness and treatment that I’m having.

That said I think A is unreasonable. We cannot expect everyone else to take responsibility for us. If B thought it was a simple cough fair enough, it doesn’t sound deliberate. At this time of the year there is so much going round if like me A wants to mix with others it’s a risk you have to take. Or make a choice to minimise it yourself and stay at home.

I wouldn’t / couldn’t ask others to stay at home for my benefit if they feel well enough to attend.

The university does have a duty to make reasonable adjustments but it all depends on what is reasonable. It is not reasonable for the university to prohibit other students from attending A's course if unwell. I think it's not even reasonable to advise other students not to attend the course if unwell as attendance is part of the course requirements.

The university should have a plan in place however to assist A. Recorded lectures, attendance by skype at tutorials are all reasonable adjustments, but if A has to physically attend laboratory sessions it may be that A is not able to complete the course.

This is very very sad and a great shame for A but it is what it is and not anyone's fault.

I'm afraid I also think A is unreasonable. I teach in a University, and I have a minor cold about 80% of the time october - april.
If I stayed off whenever I had a slight sniffle, 60 other students would also miss out.
B wasn't very nice about it though.
Video capture seems like a good alternative.

B is a hateful bastard

That is unfair, totally. B is trying to get an education. I feel bad for A, of course, but a reasonable adjustment to their needs CANNOT be the impede the education of everyone else. You cannot tell every other student that they are not allowed in class if they have a cough.

Colds and coughs are normal in winter, and not enough reason to stay at home. If A stays away from people with colds and practices good hygiene that is enough.

This is very difficult, my sympathy is with A but as others have said, B is an adult and if they feel well enough to be in class that is not for anyone else to dictate. My other question would be how did A know B had a chest infection? They aren’t a doctor I assume, so even if familiar with chest infection symptoms you aren’t really qualified to make that assessment. Even a doctor would struggle without listening to their lungs etc. It might be that B just had a bad cough, and A’s infection is unrelated.

Also the reality is universities are very germy places, and there’s only so many things you can do to help.

When I was at uni I caught swine flu, and was holed up in my student house for a week and a half. One of my housemates invited over a friend with an immuno deficiency and I was told in no certain terms to give her a wide berth! In my own house! Despite the fact I was housebound and going mad, the still insisted i lock myself in my room and keep away etc. Sorry but if you’re foolish enough to stay in the home of a person with swine flu that’s on you...

I think A is being unreasonable and so too are the university for going along with it.

This could have no end - A may use the canteen, toilets, corridors, stairs and come across others with bugs, should this policy be rolled out to every student at the university? Tutors get sick too, do they have to stay home?

A should have support to cope from home. It's more manageable than having potentially 100s of students sending in sick notes and missing classes or alternatively receiving complaints from A every other day.

an email has now been sent out to all in the class that if any of us or children present with respiratory illness we are to stay at home

I missed this bit: have the university actually told everyone that if their children have a cough they are not allowed to come in? That is outrageous. And unworkable anyway.

:Uni is on very dodgy ground here and looking for trouble.

My uni offers tutorials via Skype, so there are 'reasonable' ways A could be accommodated in seminars without needing to be physically present which would negate the issue, surely?

Interesting that those commenting on a parallel work situation only refer to simply working from home - not an option for many jobs.

A is being unreasonable.

The reasonable adjustment for a uni with a student such as is to provide lectures by way of podcast. Many do just this as a matter of course anyway for all students. I know of one student who had a similar illness who took her particular chemical engineering course at a particular university purely on this basis alone.

I can see both points of view here. A university student myself where attendance is extremely important I'd be furious if I was told to stay off because I have a cough especially as mine has been lingering for about six weeks now. Would I be expected to stay off for six weeks for the sake of one student when nearly every other student has something or over at the minute as well? On the other hand my youngest brother is severely disabled and a chest infection could kill him so from October to Febuary is on antibiotics as a preventive measure however instead of the school telling other pupils not to come in when they have colds, the school rings my mum and tells her not to send my brother in if they are made aware that something is going around so that other pupils' education doesn't have to suffer.

My cough after "freshers flu" lasted about 3 months! No way would I have stayed off uni for 3 months given I was totally fine except for a bit of a cough.

A is unreasonable. Uni is unreasonable. They should offer video link lectures for A.

Of course, @LeeksPotatoes - I wasn't suggesting that Wfh should possible for all jobs, I was trying to make the point that reasonable accommodation varies by circumstance and that what works in some employment doesn't work in a uni or indeed in other employment.

There'll be more than one seminar group running. It would have been kind for B to agree that while they were coughing they would attend a different group for a week or two.
In that case why couldn't A have attended a different group?!
A is unreasonable - you can't force everyone into changing their lives for you (even though you may have shitty circumstances).

chest infections aren't contagious. I believe a cold can develop into an infecton on the chest, but you can't catch a chest infection.

Nike A could have moved groups too, yes. You'll note I said it would be kind of B to do so, given that A has had enough problems already. The point is that there is a fairly easy solution, as long as someone will change groups.

chest infections are contagious in the sense that the virus that causes them is but the virus does not have to be a chest infection - hence the problem here.

A,B,C and D may all have the same virus passed from one to another, 3 have had a mild cold, D has had a chest infection. The issue here is that any cold/respiratory symptoms floating around could give A a serious chest infection. Its this that makes it unworkable - at any given time a class of children/adults are likely to be suffering from some mild form of cold (at least some are) so to have such a blanket ban is untenable.

That said B had a serious chest infection and was on antibiotics and still came in knowing A's issue - I can see the issue there (although I thought 24 hours of antibiotics stopped it being contagious at least that is what (I thought) a doctor told me)

I have the deepest sympathy for A. However, a university is not a charitable institution. It's not there to fulfil a bucket list wish, it's there to educate.
You can't make it germ-free. Hundreds of people are visiting it every day, they may carry diseases invisible to human eye.
I too have a weaker immunity but I wouldn't frown at colleagues coming to work with a cough or snotties. I'd be at home the whole winter if I had to avoid anyone sneezing or coughing and would spend the time in isolation from my DD too.
A university is not obliged to make provisions for someone who wishes to attend it while having such a weak immune system that they get any potential disease.
I get B. He's there to learn and to build up a future. There's a chance a long absence would cost him a lot in terms of stuff he missed out at.

Fucking hell Clandestino

"However, a university is not a charitable institution. It's not there to fulfil a bucket list wish, it's there to educate."

A is still entitled to a bloody education and a career that they can go far in and at times, their quality of life is really good. Just sadly, at the moment their health is obviously suffering. They are 'terminal' but they have every intention of living life to the fullest.

Yes, A is suffering, but Clandestino does have a point. A is not entitled to their education at the expense of their fellow students' education.