Who is in the right?

[Rinmybell]

Firstly, this is about someone who is terminally ill, I don't know if it needed a trigger warning but thought I'd say in case people wished to stop reading here.

At uni I have a student in the same class, who has a life limiting condition. They are very poorly and at times it has been very touch and go. This is their second attempt at Uni. The first attempt, they lost a family member to the same illness and became very ill, also. So they dropped out. We will call them A.

Last week during seminar, A flagged up that another student (B) was ill. They were coughing and to their ears it sounded like a chest infection - which is very dangerous for A.
A spoke with the teacher and explained that one of them would have to go home. Teacher explained to B who was very upset and angry - and insisted they would not be going home, it would have to be A.
A is now very upset that extra provisions were not made for them - they have a lot of time off due to their preexisting condition and shouldn't have to take more time off for someone else's illness.
B, is cross also because they feel like they in themselves were well enough to attend, and they are not responsible for A's health.
A has now contracted a chest infection. Can't prove it was from B, but an email has now been sent out to all in the class that if any of us or children present with respiratory illness we are to stay at home.
This has now caused an outrage as people have complained today they've had to miss out today, as they have coughs.
There is another person in the class who's child also suffers with a life limiting illness, so they too agree that this should be the policy.
There is now quite a divide and people don't really know where they stand.
I already know what I think - but have been told IABU, so would kind of liked to know what others think.
So who is BU in your opinion?

It seems harsh but I don't think it's up to the Uni to "step up" and provide a solution for A or the staff member with the sick child. Yes, they could make reasonable adjustments but that's more likely to involve A and the staff member staying away/working from home than asking everyone else to stay away.

Sorry but i read your op as A said one of them would have to go home, and whe B refused A got upset, so A was really meaning B had to go home?

I reluctantly think A is being unreasonable. Any cold can turn into a chest infection and a lot of people have a cold at the moment. I do, and a lot of the kids I teach do and my own daughter has been off nursery for a week and a half with a nasty chest infection. A could have got that cold/chest infection from the cashier at the checkout, by touching a stair railing or from someone in the street sneezing as they passed each other.

I do really feel for her and woman with ill child though.

A doesn't use public transport, or the canteen or even the toilets at the college. They haven't been to the cinema or to a pub in a long time and their time at Uni is hugely important to them (as it is to us all) and great for their MH.
We have to practice good hygiene in most of our lessons (a lot of practical work) and tbh, I don't know how A will complete some of the course with the pre existing condition, but that is not my issue to discuss.
I think they do use a mask in a few situations, but it is not always practical - and I think also A finds it quite difficult because you wouldn't know from an outside perspective that they were ill. The mask to them 'marks' them if that makes sense, I also don't know how effective the mask is in their case.

There'll be more than one seminar group running. It would have been kind for B to agree that while they were coughing they would attend a different group for a week or two.

If A suffers from CF or any other immunodeficiency then B was being unreasonable. What is a simple cold to us could mean weeks in hospital for them. Missing one day of classes to make sure you don’t put someone in hospital at serious risk is the obvious thing. To ignore that seems like a dick move.

A should have done the degree with the Open University it’s unreasonable to expect other people to stay away because of one person being susceptible .

Unfortunately I think A is BU. It's not practical to expect anyone else with any sort of cough etc or children who has one, to miss uni because of 1 person. It's unfortunate but it's not fair to everyone else.

A is being unreasonable.

How could anybody diagnose that B had a chest infection?? I've hacked and spluttered through many a winter - been to GP, chest fine.

Everybody has colds, you can't keep the whole class off because of one person. The Uni has to work out how they accommodate A's learning without penalising others. Video link, skype, Zoom, recorded lectures, have they even thought of it??

These students are paying a lot of money.

How difficult. I don't think it's really fair to ask students to stay off with every minor infection. I get two or three colds a year which turn into a chest infection, and they sometimes last for weeks. Viral, so i can't take anything for them, just have to wait for them to go. Don't feel awful either, just a bit run down with a cough. If I took that much time off I wouldn't finish my degree! On the other hand I couldn't be responsible for making someone else very ill.

Unless A teleports into lectures and back, they could have caught the bug from anyone they passed.
So i don't think it's fair to point fingers at B.

It's a horrible situation but I think the uni should be working with A to find a way around it, e.g. Video link to lectures, Skype tutorials etc

It's fair enough to ask people to stay away when they're ill but coughs especially do linger long after you've stopped feeling ill. And if a student has a couple of young children they're likely to have multiple coughs/colds over winter.

The problem is coughs can rumble on for weeks.

I think it would be reasonable for the class to err on the side of staying home when they are feeling rough, out of consideration to A. We have had this with various classmates with lowered immunity and it seems the only decent thing to do. However common sense needs to be applied - you really can't ask everyone who catches a cold or cough to take off a week or three until the last dregs of their cough have gone, when they are otherwise well.

College could help by enabling remote access - ability for students to dial into lectures and view them via screen share, have notes available online, catch up sessions etc. That would defuse the argument a bit.

I think unfortunately that A is being very unreasonable.

All students are paying a lot to attend university, and A has no right to insist they miss out on their education. A is asking someone who's a bit off colour but who has felt well enough to attend uni to go home in case A catches a virus or infection.

It is different if it's D&V all organisations have clear guidance about that. But this is winter, almost everyone will get a could, which will impact them for a week or more. You can't possibly really expect people to stay home in that instance.

National guidance to schools recommends kids still attend school with colds, tonsillitis, all sorts of lurgies. Why would university be more strict on demanding people stay home?

Working at a hospital people are still expected to attend with colds etc. Only D&V is a mandatory sickness period of 48hrs

B is being horrendously unreasonable

But we have this horrible attitude that we don't allow anyone to be I'll anymore. People have to come to work I'll yet we know this is detrimental to the workplace and horrendously damaging to those most vulnerable

www2.cipd.co.uk/pm/peoplemanagement/b/weblog/archive/2015/11/04/annual-cost-of-presenteeism-is-twice-that-of-absenteeism-says-prof-cooper.aspx

I think it is unrealistic of A to think that they can avoid catching infectious illnesses in the midst of such a large community as a uni. If it was the expected norm that coughs and colds were reason to stay away it would be unworkable.

Universities are Bug City, with viruses and bacteria exchanged from all around the world. By the third week of term, probably 1/3 of my class have a cold or the flu, it's absolutely typical.

I don't think it remotely reasonable to have students stay at home if they or someone in their house has a cold- this would be pretty much most students at some point in the term. These students are racking up student loans, you can't ask them to all forego their lectures and teaching sessions for one other student, however awful their individual situation is, it's just not practical.

That said, reasonable adjustments should be made- like making materials online, doing practicals on their own if necessary, recording lecturers, doing anything to keep A on track- including them wearing a mask, keeping away from communal areas, all the things that can limit their exposure.

But university life is probably the worst place for them to be if they don't want to contract illnesses, as it has people from all around the world and country exchanging bugs all the time in overheated rooms! It's probably worse than a stable office environment where the same people are there everyday, and that's saying something.

If nobody can come in with a cold, how are the other students supposed to access the education that they have paid for over the winter months? I completely sympathise with A, but it is unreasonable to expect everyone else in the class to sacrifice their chances of good grades to facilitate A's ability to complete their degree.

A's health is their priority, but they can't expect that to be true for everyone, especially those who may struggle to catch up if they miss too many sessions. I agree with others that skype sessions, switching groups for tutorials or similar would be a more practical solution than expecting everyone to jeopardise their grades by staying off for potentially weeks at a time.

A is unreasonable.

If B has a chest infection they’re too ill to be at uni.

A needs to talk to their advisor and work out some reasonable adjustments including taped lectures though.

If people or their kids have say chicken pox then they should not be in clsss either but it can’t be taken too far.

However A cannot police the class, it’s hard especially given the circumstances. I had a dear friend who got pulled from uni after a week when her consultant found out she was going and he was unhappy about th risk.

I’m asthmatic. I cough and splutter my way through every winter - not necessarily a chest infection.

If I was to stay off every time I had a nasty cough, I’d never be in!

All sympathies for A but they can’t micromanage other people’s attendence in this way.

This kind of thread worries me because I hate to think it will end up in the daily mail.

Worst newspaper in the world. Truly despicable.

As you were.

Another vote for A bring unreasonable, despite them having my deepest sympathies.

Students pay Alot of money for their education and it's not reasonable for them to fall behind because of another student's condition. Whilst I appreciate A is paying too, it is not a reasonable adjustment to expect others to make.

If sitting away from other students is not an option for A, as pp have posted remote access to lectures is a reasonable adjustment for the uni to make.