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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To really not want daughters?

300 replies

AngeloMysterioso · 20/11/2017 20:09

DH and I will be starting TTC soon, and have been talking about how we’d raise our children. And as we’ve discussed it, I’ve begun to realise that I really don’t want to have any girls.

Don’t get me wrong, I think having a daughter is in itself a wonderful thing. It’s more an issue of the world I would be raising a daughter in.

You’ve got trans rights activists erasing women everywhere you turn- women’s spaces being opened to anyone who calls themselves a woman, a 19 year old male is now a CLP Women’s officer, guidance in Scotland being issued saying if a student isn’t comfortable sharing a changing room with a trans pupil they should change somewhere else (obviously I know that would apply to boys too).

Sexual harassment and assault fucking everywhere. I’ve genuinely lost count of the number of times I’ve been grabbed, groped or catcalled. I know more women who’ve had some sort of encounter of that kind than haven’t. And of course, the victim blaming and slut shaming that occurs around it.

Those are just a few examples.

The more I think about it, the less I feel like I’d happy to bring a girl up in such a deeply misogynistic society. I just don’t see it getting any better. If anything, it’s getting worse.

AIBU?

OP posts:
Pannacott · 20/11/2017 22:20

I don’t feel the same way. I have two daughters, and I wanted daughters (currently pregnant with no3, unsure of sex yet).

Yes women face challenges unique to their sex, but so do men. They are more likely to be a victim of violent crime and more likely to kill themselves.

I think one of the reasons I am more optimistic is that I was raised in a matriarchal feminist family. As a result (and also tbf some very good therapy), I have been able to choose relationships where I have been treated well, and gone for career opportunities were I would thrive. I’m not suggesting that a positive mental attitude can eradicate individual and structural sexism and misogyny though.

A good portion (but obviously not all) of your anxieties can be ameliorated in the way you raise your girls - to be prepared for but not overwhelmed by the challenges women face. And by regularly discussing positive examples of women organising, supporting each other and thriving.

To be honest, I’d maybe recommend a bit of therapy for you. To think about what it is about your own experiences that you anticipate your hypothetical daughter going through, that you so want to protect her from. Healing the child within iyswim. Hope that makes sense.

rebbykay · 20/11/2017 22:22

I really wanted to have a girl. Just found out I'm having a boy. Thought I'd be disappointed. I wasn't. I was just happy to be having a baby who is going to grow up to be whatever he (or she, if that's how they prefer to be addressed) wants to be.

I will be bloody proud of my child. My job as a parent of a boy is now to make sure he grows up tolerant, inclusive, accepting and understanding of the wide variety of people we have in this world.

It would have been exactly the same if I was having a girl.

Feminism = equality. Recognising that both genders have threats against them and working hard to equal the playing field.y daughter would have been growing up in a society that sexualises her, seeks to blame her for any abuses she suffers, pressures her to look a certain way, and many other typical female pressures.

My son will be growing up in a world where he may have to fight typical male stereotypes, where the world expects him to be tough, where he will be sneered at for showing emotion from some.

Whatever gender my child was to be, they'll be growing up in a world full of intolerant bigots and our job as parents is to ensure that they don't grow up to be the same way.

ringle · 20/11/2017 22:22

Yabu. This is a good time to be a woman. Almost certainly the best in history.

OuchLegoHurts · 20/11/2017 22:22

My advice is to just get on with it and don't get overly anxious about the state of the world. Having children is a wonderful experience, boys or girls, and life offers plenty of joy. People have birth to, and reared, children throughout wars and other times of crisis. Less navel gazing is advisable before you egret the world of child rearing! Most of us aren't consumed with worry, we're just enjoying being parents.

OuchLegoHurts · 20/11/2017 22:23

*before you enter the world of child rearing

Lelloteddy · 20/11/2017 22:23

Odd premise.

You want a boy so that you don’t have to deal with misogyny. Who do you think should be responsible for teaching your pretend DS about misogyny?

BakedBeans47 · 20/11/2017 22:27

Also boys might give you different worries you just haven’t thought of. I have 2 boys and worry quite a lot about mental health issues. The eldest is quite quiet and sensitive and the youngest has special needs and I do worry about the coping (or not) strategies they’ll develop as they get older.

TheFirstMrsDV · 20/11/2017 22:27

Its no wonder that people take the piss out of MN.
Privileged women hand wringing over bringing a baby girl into a sheltered, privileged, comfortable world.

Get a grip

Original poster
AngeloMysterioso · 20/11/2017 22:28

You dont want a girl because men are abusive misogynistic bastards

Please do find the post where I said that.

I was raised well by my Mum. I’m confident, assertive, and have no trouble standing up for myself, and I would try to raise my daughters the same way.

Hasn’t stopped several men from thinking my body was something they were free to grab if they wanted.

OP posts:
Original poster
AngeloMysterioso · 20/11/2017 22:31

To be honest, I’d maybe recommend a bit of therapy for you. To think about what it is about your own experiences that you anticipate your hypothetical daughter going through, that you so want to protect her from.

This is a joke. Please tell me this is a joke.

OP posts:
Skarossinkplunger · 20/11/2017 22:32

Hoppinggreen please stop perpetuating the myth that every woman has been sexually assaulted.

rebbykay · 20/11/2017 22:33

I have male friends who have been repeatedly groped in clubs. They have also been "started on" by other alpha males who just want to fight.

Both genders have struggles in their lives. As many others have said in this thread, suicide is a mainly male issue. Mental health issues affect males just as much as females only the attitudes of society prevent men from getting help. I've lost three male friends to suicide.

Society is moving forwards. There is still a lot of work to do on both sides. So many male allies are becoming present in the world now, and we are moving into a time where it's actually brilliant to be a woman. Following the #metoo campaign there is now a big focus on men and their behaviour.

JanetStWalker · 20/11/2017 22:33

My mother said she wanted boys.

And to think I'd spent a lifetime wondering why we weren't close, assuming there was something fundamentally unlovable about me.

rebbykay · 20/11/2017 22:34

(And I say this as a woman who has been sexually assaulted.)

BakedBeans47 · 20/11/2017 22:34

That’s how it comes across OP. What you have posted makes no sense whatsoever Hmm

Tipsytopsyturvy · 20/11/2017 22:34

So if you’ve no problem standing up for yourself why is teaching a baby girl such a worry? Confused
I’m genuinely confused.
If you were a mum living in the third world where in some countries some girls suffer the indignity of no education, very basic or no women’s healthcare, no Right to opinions, are owned by their father then their husband with very few rights, I might see why a ds would be preferable.
But honestly I’m speechless.

TinselTwins · 20/11/2017 22:35

Are people really so ignorant about how women's rights are being eroded right niw? It's fucking terrifying but this thread seems to be from an alternative universe where it's not happening??

WorraLiberty · 20/11/2017 22:35

This doesn’t make any sense OP. You dont want a girl because men are abusive misogynistic bastard, so you’d rather have one of them?

Indeed BakedBeans

rebbykay · 20/11/2017 22:36

Tinsel - our rights are being eroded?

Call me ignorant. Can you expand?

rebbykay · 20/11/2017 22:38

Unless you mean Brexit, which yes, is a concern for gender rights... We are living in a society that's more equal than ever? There is still a lot of work to do and of course, BAME and trans women are struggling a lot more than white women, and I am speaking from a position of privilege.

TinselTwins · 20/11/2017 22:40

The OPs first post rebby
Do people just read the title then wade in without even reading the OP?

Original poster
AngeloMysterioso · 20/11/2017 22:42

BakedBeans47 I’ve just re-read my posts and they seem perfectly coherent to me. Can’t find any where I’ve implied I’m some crazed man-hater. Or indeed girl-hater. So if you and WorraLiberty could please find the post where I categorically state that men are abusive misogynistic bastards I’d be grateful, as I can’t see it anywhere.

So if you’ve no problem standing up for yourself why is teaching a baby girl such a worry?

Because, as I said in my last post- it hasn’t stopped several men from thinking my body was something they were free to grab if they wanted.

OP posts:
ringle · 20/11/2017 22:42

My rights are not being eroded

Shizzler · 20/11/2017 22:43

Privileged women hand wringing over bringing a baby girl into a sheltered, privileged, comfortable world.

Yep.

All seems a bit overly dramatic. Trying to make a perfectly normal situation more angst ridden than it needs to be.

rebbykay · 20/11/2017 22:44

I read OPs first post. It was mainly about trans rights and the perceived threat of trans women to OP.

Whilst certainly a feminist issue, it's quite intersectional.

I get OP is concerned about raising women in today's society but I'm not sure why. Women are kick arse and are making serious waves at the moment.

Sorry you didn't follow my point.