To really not want daughters?

[AngeloMysterioso]

DH and I will be starting TTC soon, and have been talking about how we’d raise our children. And as we’ve discussed it, I’ve begun to realise that I really don’t want to have any girls.

Don’t get me wrong, I think having a daughter is in itself a wonderful thing. It’s more an issue of the world I would be raising a daughter in.

You’ve got trans rights activists erasing women everywhere you turn- women’s spaces being opened to anyone who calls themselves a woman, a 19 year old male is now a CLP Women’s officer, guidance in Scotland being issued saying if a student isn’t comfortable sharing a changing room with a trans pupil they should change somewhere else (obviously I know that would apply to boys too).

Sexual harassment and assault fucking everywhere. I’ve genuinely lost count of the number of times I’ve been grabbed, groped or catcalled. I know more women who’ve had some sort of encounter of that kind than haven’t. And of course, the victim blaming and slut shaming that occurs around it.

Those are just a few examples.

The more I think about it, the less I feel like I’d happy to bring a girl up in such a deeply misogynistic society. I just don’t see it getting any better. If anything, it’s getting worse.

AIBU?

To be fair the issues you've mentioned can be true for boys as well!

I wanted (and had!) boys but not for the reasons you gave.

Nonetheless, I hear what you’re saying and I’m doing my hardest to raise two feminist boys so there’s a new generation in which females no longer have to suffer in the way you describe.

It isn’t just simply about not wanting a female.
It’s about changing the upbringing of our children as a whole to understand equality, diversity, acceptance no matter what your sex, gender, religion, colour or creed.

I have boys and girls. They are all a delight - I love having girls and being able to share some of the wisdom I have learned and my own experiences as a woman. The bond I have with them is so strong. I would hate to be without my girls.

My boys I feel the same about and it is in fact my eldest son who suffers from anxiety and other things that will make his life more difficult.

Surely you can use similar arguments for anything - you can say you never want kids of either gender because of global warming, nuclear war, capitalism, Trump, Murdoch, house prices, greedy bankers, Brexit, childcare costs, bad schooling, university fees, lack of jobs, crime, rail fares, pollution, GM crops.....

The world has problems, whatever gender your kid is, they will have to deal with a bunch of different ones.

I would much prefer to be myself than to ever be any man. As a girl I often thought how lucky I was - even if for stupid reasons like being able to wear makeup and change my hair. I love my life and have (personally) never felt at a disadvantage.

Surely if you're enlightened about the issues girls face, as you clearly are, you're exactly the kind of mum a daughter would need? Because you'll be able to guide her through those issues and make sure she's aware of and prepared for whatever she might face growing up. She'd be a lucky kid to have a parent having her back that like.

If you do have a transgender baby, so What. As long as they're happy. Who cares.

I don’t think you’re BU as you have your own reasons. I was actually the opposite I never wanted boys, I got my wish and have three girls.

For me it was that I didn’t want such a hard job of swimming against the tide within our families. My DH and DF are not like this but all of my brothers, FIL, BIL and nephew, Are chauvinistic pigs. They see, speak about and act as though women are second rate citizens. Neither my mum or MIL seem to notice and instead dote on them.

Dingle how can you sincerely say you will raise your boys to be accepting of people regardless of sex when you say you only wanted boys?

Op. I really don't think you're ready to have a child.
Your assuming a girl will be at risk from men.
Your assuming a boy will grow up to sexually harass someone.

I have the same fears with my daughters, that’s why I’m teaching them and my son about equality.

I remember asking my elderly gp when I could stop worrying about my first pregnancy meaning I think when miscarriage risk reduced. She laughed and said "you never never stop worrying as parent even when they are over 50"

You both sound real doom mongers though. There are lots of wonderful things about being alive and a woman and having daughters and yes I have had a lot of street harrassment in the past so not minimising how annoying that is. Anecdotally more male peers of mine have died in sad circumstances than women (drug use, suicide).

OP - I think that if you would like to have a baby, it would be good to put those worries aside and just do everything you can including hoping for a healthy baby. We have to not despair too much, agreed the world is tough but if you want to procreate, you need to think you'll be able to handle whatever happens - it is always a risk, and I think gender should not be too high up there on the list of worries. More than ever, there are great role models for girls and as you're aware of the potential difficulties girls face you can plan how you will handle things, and teach any daughter you have to handle things as well as possible. Good luck.

you know what I find sad about this? It's like saying "I don't mind having boys because they will be the horrible ones and therefore I don't have to worry about them".

Or has it not even occurred to you that if you had sons, they might turn out like that?

That’s a question I’ve just been wondering myself!

Mine reason is a little pathetic to be honest.

Before I had my first, I had no inkling of whether I had a boy or a girl. I’d never had a baby before I didn’t know what either was like.
But when DS1 came along I thought he was so amazing, that how could I not possibly want another one?
So when I was pregnant with him I very much wanted a boy and could only picture myself being a mother of boys.

So, it’s not very intelligent, rational or thought with much depth.
But that’s my reason nonetheless.

To be fair the issues you've mentioned can be true for boys as well!

Yes, men and boys can be sexually harassed and assaulted but it’s far far more common for it to happen to women and girls.

Why do anything?

*so when I was pregnant with DC2

I think it’s better that girls r born to women like you who are aware of the issues they might face. The more women like you who raise strong confident girls & women the sooner society will change. TTC knowing that you could get either sex but that it doesn’t matter as you will raise your child (regardless of their sex) to be confident & strong enough to challenge. That’s better than hoping for a boy.

I am a woman and have never had any of what you said happen to me.

I wish that people who complain how difficult it is to be a woman these days would remember what it was like back in the 50s-60s-70s. The rampant sexism in society would make them blench. The need to have a MALE guarantor, even if he was unemployed and you were working, the inability of an unmarried woman to get a mortgage, the barriers to employment/equal pay, the pathetic comments about "bra-burners" towards any woman who tried to assert herself. The use of beautiful young girls in advertising ANYTHING. The distaste and secrecy around anything involving feminine bodily functions - menstruation, childbirth. The expectation of girls that the pinnacle of ambition was to snag a man and be kept for the rest of her life - to that end, children were given linen and household goods for their "glory box"...no thought that books, and educational toys would be more appropriate. Really, in 2 generations, girls live in such a different world - in the West, at least. You should rejoice in your daughter and give the affirmation and strength to be who she really is, even if she is really John, not Jane.

OP, there are fantastic things about being a woman. Imagine if everyone was dreading having a girl - it would just reinforce the issues you mention in your OP. I have two boys and two girls and who knows what life will throw at them, but I'm certainly not going to go out looking for problems that might never occur. Sorry I think YABU.

I am a woman and have never had any of what you said happen to me.

Me neither.

I hope to god that any child you do have isn't transgender or non-binary, for their sake

This. How will you cope if your theoretical son is trans gender op?

I have three daughters. All feminists to a greater or lesser degree, all well able to handle themselves. None will take any old bullocks either from the opposite sex or from their own.

You get what you get at the end of the day. Better to accept that than to have such rigid ideas about not wanting daughters.

Yes, men and boys can be sexually harassed and assaulted but it’s far far more common for it to happen to women and girls.

Agreed but if it happens to your child then it's 100% it's not a staistics game.

As someone said upthread about their girls that they give her hope for the future - yes that's how I feel about my boy.

Raise your children well, whatever sex they are and the world will be better.