Son's Christmas gift entitlement. AIBU?

[honeylulu]

I think I know the answer to this but I agreed I would put it out there on mumsnet and ask for opinions which I will then show him.

Son is 12 (13 in April). I always ask him to do a Christmas list and until now it's been fine but in the last year he's developed a serious designer clothing/shoes interest. This is not inherited from me or his dad btw! We live fairly modestly.

His list this year is eye watering and includes: Pomeranian dog; Gucci shoes and belt, Armani jeans, Tissot watch etc.

We are comfortably off (household income in the region of £150k) and until now we've felt able to fulfil his wishes, given that his lists have been much more modest in previous years. For example last year he had a laptop as his main present and we spent around £500 including stocking gifts. I realise that I maybe should have started managing his expectations earlier but it hasn't been issue so far.

This year his whole list would run into thousands! So we have had to caution that he will only get a very limited amount of the items, or he can reduce the designer-ness of his requests and get more items but we are not a bottomless money pit. His reaction was that we have always got him what he asked for so far why not this year?

Rather unchristmassy but we said that there is a budget. (By way of background we are about to buy a big do-er upper of a house and will have to also keep /fund our current house until we can renovate enough to move in so money is tighter this year although we had agreed we would not reduce the usual budget for kids gifts, just have less ourselves). The budget similar to last year is, for him, £400 plus extra for stocking gifts. (We also have a 3 year old but can get away with a much smaller budget for her as she is happy with My Little Ponies etc at the moment.)

He says his friends get much more than that - more presents/ bigger budget even though their parents earn less and we are mean and can afford more. We think that is bollocks. We probably could afford more but that's not the point.

£400 seems like plenty for main presents.

AIBU? I will be showing any replied to husband and son.

The pomerian dog makes me think OP son is following Jeffery Star on YouTube. He covers himself in Gucci and has a herd of these fluff balls.

All of which is tacky

They’re not in some kind of poverty zoo.

This is a very good point.

I don't get the multiple people pointing out that the OP's £400 budget, is more than their X, Y, or Z, more than their mortgage payment, or more than their monthly grocery bills etc. It's irrelavent, as evidence on here shows people earn different ammounts. It's more than my share of the mortgage payment, so what?

Assuming even only one income of £150k, even on PAYE that's about £7.5k per month after tax, jumps up about another thousand if it's two split even incomes. If my household had £8k a month coming in, I'd think £400 is a conservative ammount, and probably be spending more. It's all relative.

I do think this has mostly come about from the OP though, give a child a system where they put stuff on a list and they get it, what do you expect to happen, when their tastes change? The items on the list are a bit suspect for his age though.

Lol, that reads like my son's Christmas wish list and our income is a fifth of yours! We just laugh and say 'When you can buy it yourself'

He’s 12. He can add up. He needs to be taught budgeting.
Get him to rewrite his list with prices. Then get him to list it in priority order. Once he gets to £400 he can stop listing/prioritising as its not going to happen.

He’s 12. He can add up. He needs to be taught budgeting.
Get him to rewrite his list with prices. Then get him to list it in priority order. Once he gets to £400 he can stop listing/prioritising as its not going to happen.

How to take the joy out of Christmas.

How joyful is the alternative?

If my DS presented me with that list, I would laugh, admire his style (and his gall) and let him know what I could afford to get from the list (if anything).

No need to turn it into anything else.

Your Silver Spoon Son needs an incredibly stiff talking to - I suggest you give him bugger all for Christmas.

Your Silver Spoon Son needs an incredibly stiff talking to - I suggest you give him bugger all for Christmas.

What a horrible post .

These Armani boys jeans below would be ok for £80. If you'd usually pay £20-£30 for teens jeans then that's a reasonable treat. You could add a belt, that's reasonable. The puppy just no, it's a pet. The shoes - too quickly outgrown at this age, would be men's so expensive unlike the kid jeans I linked to. Watch - too expensive, easily lost/stolen save for 16th bday. I've never had or wanted more than a watch that was £30 at Argos. At his age, that is a more appropriate choice.

www.tessuti.co.uk/product/blue-armani-jeans-j15-jeans/282612/?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping&istCompanyId=c965b954-8911-4c04-b587-8e1a23605a6c&istItemId=xamapiimat&istBid=tztx&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9r3U4JTI1wIV4p3tCh1pKQkEEAQYAyABEgIFE_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Well his list made me laugh - then I read Colin's post and that tickled me even further.

He's trying his luck, it doesn't mean he's an awful child. Some way over the top replies on here.

@honeylulu - you must, must, must in his stocking get him knock off versions of the bling outfit he asked for and a stuffed toy dog. Handbag optional.

I'm sure this will be one of those stories in the future that you all look back on and laugh at his silliness. But not when he's an adult or he'll end up on the stately home thread

It's the attitude that would upset me.....the 'other people get more, you can afford it, you are being mean' - that needs serious cracking down on and he needs telling in no uncertain terms that the attitude stinks.

It isn't just about if you can afford it - it is about choices you make as a family about consumerism. Absolutely don't apologise for him having to choose and narrow down the list or to swap items for cheaper items.

And I would also strong,y discourage this interest in designer stuff - it's crass, especially from a 12 year old.

I'm just imagining this 12 year old wandering about in his Gucci get up like a little Liberace toating a Pomeranian dog and it's really made me chuckle

Me too. What turns them from muddy little boys to this

He well be nabbing your skin care soon if you don't watch out

Without wanting to sound harsh, your sons entitlement is a product of his environment. It's really sad that he expects these gifts, sounds like he often gets everything he wants. Why would Christmas be any different. You need to reset his expectations before you create a monster.

It's so desperately sad. What is wrong with people.

I agree that his attitude is is a product of his environment.

A number of posters have suggested laughing at the list - I think this would be the right response - it is ridiculous so needs to be greeted with good humoured ridicule 'you are joking! What kind of people would want that stuff? Hysterical!' And oats others have said, you can laugh with him about it in 10 years time when he is old enough to see how daft it all is.

However OP doesn't sound like she's done this, but instead entered into a serious discussion with him about it, which has given credence to the list - has indicated that really the only reason not to be giving him this stuff is the huge cost. Of course the huge cost is a factor, but it is also the inappropriateness of the stuff and particularly the attitude that needs addressing.

Op - if your family don't have an attitude towards this kind of consumerism that simply laughs at it - and that approach knocks a fleeting daft idea on the head, then I think you need o sit down with him and have a serious chat - not a telling off, but a proper grown up conversation which is needed and will help him take a more mature approach to this.

• Start by being clear it's not a telling off and you are having the conversation because he's grown up enough now to have it.
• be clear that you are happy to give him things whi he him pleasure at Christmas, but it's not just about getting as much as you can.
• be clear that it's not just about what you as parents can afford to give, but also about your values about consumerism and what you feel is right to give and spend and also about items themselves.
• say in the past, when he was younger and wanted simpler things you were happy to give what he asked for, but now his tastes are becoming more extravagant he needs to realise the price of the items, what is appropriate to ask for and that if he really wants designer items he will be able to have 2 or 3 (or whatever you decide) and that part of being a bit more grown up can involve him choosing.

In advance of this conversation, I would mark on the list things which are inappropriate (dog) and then find the price of each item and total it all up. You can show him that. He's unfortunately in a materialistic phase which lots of teenagers go through, but even he will appreciate that the total cost is daft. If he still really wants the designer stuff then I would let him choose a couple of items so he does get things he wants, but on the understanding he will have a very small pile of presents - that will be his choice. He can also choose perhaps 1 designer item and have a selection of more normal gifts.

Most kids grow out of this desire for conspicuous consumption. Of course we see adults on TV who haven't and perhaps he's been watching stuff on Tv or online which has fuelled his interest. Or perhaps you live in one of those 'footballers wives' areas like some places in Essex or Cheshire where there is afascination in this kind of stuff and the way people show their worth is through stuff....I don't know.

One of the messages I want to teach my kids is that conspicuous consumption is deeply unattractive and pretty tacky. The amount you spend on giving and getting really doesn't reflect your own value or the value others place on you. My DC are at an Indie school where ere is no shortage of money - but as far as I can see so far, most aren't interested in designer tat. Some will get an expensive gift such as a laptop or a iPad, some will get a fairly standard item, but a really good quality version, such as a beautiful soft leather rucksack which doesn't scream a brand and many will get a a selection of the usual stuff - clothes from the High street, stationary, computer games, music,msweets, phones or phone accessories. I'm sure it all mounts up and these kids are from well off backgrounds, but most will have parents who try to keep a lid on spending and also consumerism and most of the kids will laugh at excessive displays of wealth.

I do think his age is part of the issue. There is a theory, put forward by Charlie Taylor, in his book ‘Divas and Door slammers’, that during adolescence, children’s brains are actually changing, retiring, in essence, and that, during this time, they lose some abilities - like empathy, the ability not to be self-centred, the ability to control temper etc. He describes it as almost a form of temporary brain damage. But it is temporary, and as they get older, and the restructuring settles down, these abilities return.

I do wonder if this is a factor here - that the OP’s dh’s is lacking the empathy and self awareness to realise how unrealistic and greedy his list is?

I am not suggesting that this is a reason to pander to him - he definitely needs to be told his expectations are unrealistic and greedy - but I do think it may help to understand why he is behaving this way.

A grandmother I know was saying to me recently that she’s feeling a bit down about how grabby and unappreciative her DGC have been in recent months. She feels they expect everything and appreciate nothing. So what she’s decided to do is ask them well before Christmas, if they had a pot of money and they could give it to any charity - which one would they choose. Then she intends to give the money to the one they choose instead of buying them stuff this year. I suspect it’ll be quite a shock, but I can see her frustration.

It sounds like your DS hasn’t or refuses to grasp the value of money yet. I would be tempted to get him a stocking but nothing else and let him earn a bigger thing in the new year, with doing chores etc.

Not read the whole thread (don't shoot me) but isn't a Christmas list just that - a 'wish' list?? We've always written lists on the assumption that 'these are things e would like' not 'things we expect'.

So - please may I have some, all or just one of the following.

Do people rally fulfil an entire list for their children?

If you can afford or feel inclined to get one thing (not the dog) and some stocking fillers / surprises them I fail to see the problem.

Hello all and thanks again.
H and I have spoken again to our son about counting his blessings and realising how fortunate he is. We have also accepted our part in not having managed his expectations previously (because it wasn't an issue before although we should have seen this coming).

We showed him the cost of the Gucci stuff and he was quite shocked by the cost and agreed he shouldn't have asked for it. (We also thought it was bling and ghastly by the way!!)
The dog has always been a no-no as I said upthread, although I've bought an £8 yapping walking toy puppy with batteries which we think he will see as funny by Christmas.
He has indicated one thing from his list he would really like (a winter coat, so also quite practical) and suggested some more modest brands for tops and hoodies.
I have said I will not buy expensive shoes or jeans as they will get hardly any wear before he grows. He was a bit glum but agreed that was sensible.

To answer a few points:
I agree as parents we have to take responsibility for allowing this situation to develop. As I said above we have never really had to manage his expectations before, although he did ask for a laptop three years running and we did I insist that was not appropriate until secondary school age.

I honestly don't think we have spoilt or overindulged him (although I'm questioning everything now especially as he's our eldest so we've "winged it" a bit). Our children don't get treats and new stuff all the time. We do splurge on them at birthdays and Christmas but the rest if the year they get the basics and when we take them out at weekends we do mainly free stuff. They do ask for things and my stock phrase is "well you'd better put it on your birthday list then". They don't get gifts from grandparents, aunts/uncles etc and I admit we consciously try to compensate for that.

The interest in designer stuff has only emerged in the last year - since secondary school and full on puberty/adolescence. He was very much a "little boy" until then with near enough zero interest in clothes. We're not a designer family - I have one designer handbag which was a gift and even that was second hand! It seems to have come from school friends and you tube.

I will be accused of a massive drip feed (although I've referred to this in other threads) but he is in the process of being assessed for HF ASD and ADHD. Part of this is that he will a) take what people say literally - hence believing his mates' boasts about what stuff their parents buy them and b) get totally fixated on certain things i.e. Pomeranian dogs etc are "cool" and it's very difficult to convince him otherwise.

Plus as PPs have said his brain is being rewired for entry into adulthood and yes yes yes he suddenly seemed so selfish and obnoxious overnight! Sometimes I see glimpses of the sweet funny caring boy he was (and hopefully still is). We just need to steer through as best we can though it's sooo hard, especially as he thinks he's streetwise but he's actually quite gullible/vulnerable. It's difficult sometimes to see where I should allow some leeway for his difficulties and where I should be tough with him for being an entitled little jerk!

Thanks again for all the advice (and humour), even those who told me I'm stupid and have created a monster, lol.

We will honestly do our best.

No Pomeranians were harmed in the making of this thread.

Well taken honeylulu. Still think even £400 is crazy, but you're a rare poster on AIBU who asks the question and is actually prepared to hear YABU.

Great update OP

Great comments OP.
Sounds like you've handled it well and he too has appreciated some of his requests were a bit daft.
As you say, hopefully this is phase and a short one at that, and not unknown with teenagers at all. Hope he loves his new coat.

Hope you have a lovely Christmas.

Impressed, OP.

The drip feed re potential special needs and obsessions would have helped earlier, obviously, but it sounds like you've addressed his unrealistic expectations head on.