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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

To feel sick to my stomach?

230 replies

TimeForSilence · 16/11/2017 06:58

I have NC for this as very outing.

I have spent the past 14 months going through hell at work.

I raised aco

OP posts:
Original poster
TimeForSilence · 17/11/2017 18:21

I am not allowed to contact anyone apart from my welfare contact.

No one else will stand up to him even though he’s done it to lots of women (though not quite to the extent of what he has done to me). I have a friend who was keen to speak up about what he had witnessed but no one is interested.

I wouldn’t want to put them through the disappointment of being let down either.

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londonmummy1966 · 17/11/2017 18:45

Have nothing to add but Flowers for you OP. You are a very brave and strong person who deserves better than this.

TammySwansonTwo · 17/11/2017 19:25

If you want this over swiftly, you could discuss a compromise agreement, especially if you have another job to go to. I'd speak to a lawyer either way but understand if you can't face a tribunal. I went down this route after disability discrimination at work and was so broken down I couldn't face a drawn out legal battle.

Original poster
TimeForSilence · 17/11/2017 19:43

Thanks Tammy - I just want this over but I want it done right.

I just can’t get my head around it. I am devastated. All I can think is the process hasn’t been followed properly and his union have picked them up on it, hence the low sanction despite 2 of the 3 being found as there is no defence. No mitigation for sexual offences or coercing someone to do what he made me do. It makes me sick.

I feel like I am the one in the wrong.

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LondonNicki · 17/11/2017 20:00

OP the reality is that your employer needs sufficient evidence to dismiss. I completely believe you but they sadly perhaps they needed more.

so.... your text messages. Are you sure they demonstrate the sexual harassment or can he explain the away?

  • witnesses... did you provide HR with the names of all witnesses who could have seen anything/interaction you had with this guy? This includes anyone who you spoke to about your concerns. Their testimony although heresy is still valuable
  • emails...anything you have. Please send it all to HR
  • previous or other complains - are any other women willing to speak up about his behaviour towards them?

I'm sure they wanted to act on him but for some reason their internal or external counsel felt they just didn't have enough to prove the allegation.

I'm sorry for what you are going through and I hope that helps - also you will have a right to appeal under the UK Grievance policy so I would urge you to do that. You can be accompanied by a colleague in the meetings to support you if that would make you feel more comfortable.

Original poster
TimeForSilence · 17/11/2017 20:22

London - they had in excess of 300 pages of screenshots. They clearly demonstrated sexual harassment (comments about how I couldn’t be on station if he wasn’t as he may want to do something unrepeatable to me etc). The threats were also clear as day.

I named witnesses but they didn’t want to interview them as the text messages were such strong evidence.

It was strong enough for them to take him to a gross misconduct hearing and uphold 2 of the 3.

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Original poster
TimeForSilence · 17/11/2017 20:24

And I didn’t expect dismissal, just something more than a 6 month first written warning.

Someone else got that for not following one small management instruction.

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chocz · 17/11/2017 21:30

Oh OP take care

Maybe a lawyer can knock some sense into your employer and help you negotiate a settlement agreement

FlowersFlowersFlowersFlowers

RandomMess · 17/11/2017 22:47

Flowers you have been appallingly let down.

FlashTheSloth · 17/11/2017 23:38

What a shit situation. In this day and age I would hope we were moving on from crap like this, clearly not and men can get away with doing what ever the fuck they want, yet again!

Original poster
TimeForSilence · 18/11/2017 00:48

Thank you again all - everyone I have told has been in shock.

All I can think is a procedural error - I made the complaint 6 months before he was informed (he had a weeks notice to interview) or that he wasn’t suspended so there was some loophole.

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catsarenice · 18/11/2017 13:08

Afaik a person has to be suspended for gross misconduct to be possible. Gross misconduct obviously means that they have done something so bad that they can no longer work for the company but if they have still been allowed to work then the company haven't considered it to be that bad. From his side he could therefore argue that it isn't gross misconduct as he has continued to work there. It has been handled very badly unfortunately op.

Original poster
TimeForSilence · 18/11/2017 13:25

Cats - that is what I thought. I did raise it and was told not the case. The allegations are very serious and he is fighting for his career. It was also taken to a gross misconduct level of Hearing. I suspect they haven’t followed process then and the Union have picked up on this. Then the mitigation is all the stress it has caused him.

The poor soul. Who has now gone off sick. I suspect this is due to a hangover from celebrating.

I am just getting more and more agitated as the days are passing.

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BaDumShh · 22/11/2017 08:38

@timeforsilence is there any update on this? Hope you are ok Flowers

Original poster
TimeForSilence · 22/11/2017 11:02

Hi BaDum - I am off sick from work and I am having a meeting with my employer today - they are coming to my house.

I am expecting to find out today how they plan to safeguard me from him in future then I will take it from there.

No reason why they gave such a poor sanction either. No one can understand it.

I am still trying to process it all.

Thanks again to MN Flowers

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MNHQ
LornaMumsnet · 22/11/2017 12:24

Hi there OP,

We just wanted to let you know that we've corrected your name change fail on this thread, however, please don't hesitate to contact us if you have any privacy concerns. We'll do our best to help.

Sending love & best wishes,
MNHQ

Original poster
TimeForSilence · 22/11/2017 13:25

Thank you MNHQ - I didn’t even notice Blush

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TooManyPaws · 22/11/2017 14:03

I hope you will have someone with you when they come to your house. For support as well as being a witness. Are they coming to your house because of being off sick or because of the hearing results? Don't go into too much detail about the latter if it's the former. If it's the latter, get your solicitor. Can you get it recorded? Regardless of the findings of the employer's hearing, you can still report it to the police as attempted rape, assault, and harassment, as you will know. The press may well pick up on that without any leaking.

BTW, I used to be a police staff union steward years ago and would help non-members too; I even privately advised officers who didn't want to go to the Fed... Join a union at your next job!

Original poster
TimeForSilence · 22/11/2017 15:22

They came about both. More of a general discussion than anything too formal.

I am fed up. Apparently he felt intimidated and vulnerable.

I feel like I live in some parallel universe where I have done everything wrong. He was the one harassing me and making threats. In his interview he tried to say it was the other way around but I then produced in excess of 250 pages to counteract this. I don’t understand. Maybe that was his defence in the Hearing despite all the evidence. Which makes it fine.

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WillowWeeping · 22/11/2017 15:31

Have you spoke to a lawyer yet? I really wouldn't advise meeting your work colleagues in your home without someone there.

They've already proved they do not have your best interests at heart

TheLegendOfBeans · 22/11/2017 15:31

I feel like I live in some parallel universe where I have done everything wrong. He was the one harassing me and making threats

Have you actually put it as plainly as this before?

Maybe just say it, let it land and let HR respond in kind?

rizlett · 22/11/2017 15:51

Apparently he felt intimidated and vulnerable.

Anyone would be fed up op. This is so unfair - and classic behaviour of an abusive man - he cannot look at his own behaviour and focuses only on his feelings.

Abusers will often accuse their 'victims' of exactly the behaviour that they themselves are doing.

Please don't think I'm judging you as a victim - as you have done everything to can to try and resolve this situation and are still being let down by the system.

Original poster
TimeForSilence · 22/11/2017 15:59

I have proved what he was doing with the stack of evidence I produced.

I am just confused. How dare he. After everything he put me through. The most sickening thing is he was my friend at one point and I trusted him. He felt vulnerable and intimidated yet he called me to the Hearing as a witness!! I was stood down in the end but uhh.

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MrTrebus · 22/11/2017 16:11

OP I don't think anyone has asked but are you in hospital because of something he did to you?? If so how the hell can they justify only giving him a written warning?? Unbelievable! I've always respected the fire service but this is making me wonder. Terribly sorry for what you'd have to go through OP Flowers

Original poster
TimeForSilence · 22/11/2017 16:20

MrTrebus - sorry I didn’t mention why. No - I have had no physical contact with him in over a year.

It was more my reaction to the bad news and a bit of a culmination of all the stress of the past 2 years.

I wish I had never raised this complaint. I thought a Senior Manager would see through his lies. I feel like I’ve made it up but then I remember 2 out of 3 were upheld and I have evidence.

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