To think a 13 year old boy shouldn't use the ladies loo?

[NameChangeLulu]

NC for this. Recently I was in a situation where a group of people I was in went to a service station. A boy of 13 was told by his mother to come into the ladies with her rather than use the gents as it was safer.

AIBU to think that’s not OK?

They are corrections to my post so beloved of MN incase of spelling police

I have 2 teen dds with SN/ASD. I get so fucked off over this. No one ever seems to think that the girls in there who get upset may have SNs as well - or indeed other reasons to be upset. Their needs always come second to those of boys. They are just expected to put up with finding boys their own age in changing rooms, loos etc. It's why they no longer swim. A couple of boys, their own age, from their old school, were staring at them in the changing room but it's OK as the boys have ASD. It's happened several times. They don't feel comfortable in the changing room so don't swim anymore. They stopped when they were 12 and 13. They worry about gym changing rooms now so don't go there either.

A couple of months ago dd2 opened the cubicle door to find a boy of about 14 swinging on the door frame, right in her face. I come out of the next cubicle to find her in total panic and on the way to a total meltdown. But it's ok says his mum, he has ASD. So does she, why do his needs have to come first? And this is a National Trust place so not exactly a dive. She's hasn't been in a public loo since. In fact she was so upset she didn't leave the house for 2 weeks. Thanks for that. But I'm sure many will just think she's dramatic

Yep agree planetclom. Same as changing rooms - unisex the way forward (would solve all the men self identifying as females issues as well).

Using ladies loo was always the last resort with ds1 - but if it was that or him attacking his head or those around him I’d scoot him in.

@AquaAddict I really don’t see this as a boy vs girl issue. It’s a case of parents putting their child above anyone else’s. Something I’d always do, and I imagine most people would.

I don’t go around thinking oh what if this/what if that and I wouldn’t expect anyone else to constantly live in fear of offending others.

When I take my SN nephew out there’s so much I could have a go at people for but wouldn’t as I can’t expect them to live their lives around him.

I also take him into the toilets with me and have never once had a negative reaction. He can’t see much at all but at 9 wouldn’t want me in the cubicle with him so we go into the ladies so he can have the privacy to urinate and then I can guide him to wash his hands/out of the toilet etc.

I think a 13 year Old in a ladies loo happens rarely, and people getting offended by it is even rarer in real life.

I agree aqua. It's just another way of teaching boy children that their needs/wants come above females...so nothing changes

I have a 12 year old who is profoundly disabled, non verbal, too vunerable to ever be left alone etc. I ( I because he is not toilet trained) always use the unisex accessible toilet if there is one available. If there isn't a unisex toilet ( sometimes even the accessible toilets are not unisex) I use the ladies and he either he comes into the cubicle with me or he is fastened into his sn buggy just outside the cubicle and I keep the door slightly open and talk to him so people know he is with me. Obviously I cannot do that in the men's.
I would far rather there were decent accessible facilities everywhere.

What thr message seems to be is 'womens toilets are a female only space unless you happen to be MY teenage son in which case your penis doesn't count

This sums it up for me.
The male bathroom is unsafe because it is full of males? So what makes you think your male DC is not a threat to females? I am sure abuse by 13yo boys happens...
And the argument that the boy is harmless because he is with a femake adult is silly, does it mean my DH is welcome as well if he comes with me?

AquaAddict I am so sorry that your DDs (and you) have been through this.

And you illustrate exactly the problem. Girls and women who can't tolerate - for very good reasons - sharing intimate space with boys and men often don't make a fuss, just withdraw from that space. And then, magically, there is no problem! And if the girls do make a fuss, then they are causing "drama" and being oversensitive, but if anyone suggests that the boys modify their behaviour (by using male facilities) then OMG we are putting our boys at risk.

I have a son. He is everything to me. I would rather die than have him in danger. But I'm not going to throw anyone else's DDs under the bus on my way to protect him - not least because that's not the kind of man I want to see him grow up to be.

I can't see why a 13 year old can't go into the gents on their own but also at the same time the ladies is all cubicles so can't seem what the problem is them using the ladies. Lots of schools now have shared cubical toilets.

This ‘not safe’ bollocks is so ironic. Why do people think men’s toilets aren’t safe? It’s not because there’s monsters in there, it’s (I’m assuming) because there’s men. So why do they think women want to share a toilet with them?

Exactly.

and have never once had a negative reaction

lils a nine-year-old is fairly different from a 13 year old - but in any case, you might not see a negative reaction anyway. When your nephew is a strapping 13 and still going into the ladies with you, the girls who also use that ladies almost certainly won't say anything, or challenge you or him. But some of them will just have another little bit of dread and stress added onto their lives, as they will know that it doesn't matter when something is labelled "women only" or "girls only", there will always be the chance of a boy or man there whose needs are deemed more important that theirs.

Or - like "AquaAddict*'s DDs, they will just stop using that facility altogether, and lose out completely. You'd never know.

But they are not “girls only” most of the time there’s a notice saying it’s possible there will be male cleaners in them too. Do you all turn and walk away or are male cleaners not the scary sexual predators that boys accompanied by their mothers are?

Lots of schools now have shared cubical toilets

But they are in a completely different (and slightly safer) configuration. Most public toilets are of the type where you go through one or two doors, then you are in a little room, and that room has cubicles and washbasins in it. Once in that little room, you're trapped with one exit, through one or two doors. Making these types of toilet gender-neutral just means that when a big bloke follows you into that little room with only one exit, you don't know if he's there to grab you or to pee. Plus, many of these loos don't have floor-to-ceiling doors, and it's easy to look in the cubicles.

The gender-neutral loos in new-build schools are generally of the type where there are single cubicles along one side of a very short open corridor at right-angles to the main corridor - there's nowhere to get trapped, as such. Even then these types of loos aren't great. There's one for adults like this in Camden Market which is pretty grim to use as although you can't get trapped in it, and it's busy, half the men don't bother even shutting the doors, which I don't think is unconnected to the amount of teenage girls who visit Camden Lock. So you get a nice view of Stranger Peen when you just want a wee.

I agree with Ttbb, there are soo many factory to take into consideration & i dont really see what the issue is. 13 is still a minor!! Im in my late twenties & female, i recently visited a station that had a disgusting set of ladies toilets so i went in the mens! I checked with my partner that no one was in there but sometimes needs must!!! If it doesnt affect you then it shouldnt concern you!

lils I'm not keen on male staff in women's toilets, either, but at least they are usually identifiable as staff - uniforms, carrying a mop, etc.

And we have at least one poster here who says her DDs with SN have had to stop using facilities they loved - the swimming pool and the gym - because of boys in there. Where are those girls' rights? Why don't those girls' needs and wishes count?

If it doesnt affect you then it shouldnt concern you!

But Pru it does affect many girls and women. It does concern us.

What age does the “safety” element stop mattering then out of interest? I doubt many would be happy to see a 16 year old? 18 year old in there? 21? 40?

If male toilets are that dangerous surely something needs doing for all men?

I am sure abuse by 13yo boys happens...

when they are accompanied by their mothers?

disahsterdahling but 13 year olds are not always accompanied by their mothers. What should they do when they are out with their mates?

I agree that male toilets are frequently dirty and occasionally very dangerous for the men and boys that use them - and the danger comes from other men. But the solution is not to let them fuck up the women's loos, too, but to tackle the problem at source.

What age does the “safety” element stop mattering then out of interest? I doubt many would be happy to see a 16 year old? 18 year old in there? 21? 40?

Exactly. A short, slight 25 year old male could easily be sexually assaulted in the men’s toilets.

Is it okay for him to come into the women’s toilets as long as his mum is there to vouchsafe for his good behaviour?

There are always notices stating that make attendants may clean the toilets.

There are also details on how often alot of the time and a sign sheet so you k is when it was last done and when it's due next.

You then have choice whether to use them or not.

What's the difference between 13 14 etc do you accompany them forever. They tower over their mums at that age like fuck should they be in the ladies

At the end of the day my sons safety will always come first to me. The eldest is 10 and admittedly always uses the male toilets however at our train station he always comes in with me as it’s known for being full of drug users and the disabled toilet is stupidly padlocked.

If there is genuine concern for a child’s safety then I think it’s fine. As a general thing to just do then I think it’s a little strange and uncalled for.

Although hearing all of these stories about attacks I’ll probably stick to him using disabled loos now if his dad isn’t around. I feel I’ve been too casual about the dangers of male toilets.. saying that my best friend was beaten up and mugged in female Sainsbury’s loos.

I guess nowhere is ever safe for anyone

IF he isn’t disabled please don’t use the disabled toilets.

my teenage son would not do this and has not for years. He has a disabled key as AN so there would be no excuse to use ladies.

My Ds is nearly 10 but looks about 7. He has autism but I have stopped taking him in to the ladies as I am unsure how other women would react. He goes into the mens with his dad but he hates it as he can't handle the dryers. I have never thought to use the disabled toilets but may start now as it will be a long time before he will be able to go in by himself.
If I saw a 13 year old boy in the female toilets, I would assume special needs but it wouldn't bother me either way.