To think a 13 year old boy shouldn't use the ladies loo?

[NameChangeLulu]

NC for this. Recently I was in a situation where a group of people I was in went to a service station. A boy of 13 was told by his mother to come into the ladies with her rather than use the gents as it was safer.

AIBU to think that’s not OK?

My 12/13 year old wouldn't be in town on his own.""

Many have to be to go to school. What do you suggest they do?

@sickandtiredofbeing he’s a close family member rather than a friend so he hasn’t had any history of sexual assault (luckily) if he had I would know-were that kind of family. I think I said elsewhere the boy is very mollycoddled.

@Leilaniii all of those situations you describe are pretty extreme and I probably wouldn’t consider it wrong in those to take your boy in with you. This however was a busy service station in the middle of the day so not comparable.

You call it misogynistic bullshit, I call it safeguarding and common sense so there you go. As regards my children I go with my view not yours as do other parents who will continue to do so.

Maisy sexual assaults do happen. You can pretend otherwise but they do. I don't want my sons subjectedvto flashing,lewd gestures,drug apparatus ,drunks etc. Children have been raped in department store toilets and McDonald's. That is the extreme but not the only scenario I protected them from when younger before experience,life,phones,mates and education started protecting them.

Glad I did and if I have more boys I'll do exactly the same.

The issue is one of male violence, they are by far more likely to be sexual predators than women. So instead of addressing the issue of male violence, women and girls have to be made to feel vulnerable by teenage boys being in their loos. Whilst the cubicles may be lockable many of them are not floor to ceiling enclosed. I would certainly challenge a teenage boy if I saw one in the ladies, I assume they wouldn't be too delicate to be challenged!

Common sense to tell your sons women don't matter? Great. Now where IS the next generation of rapists coming from

I would not mind a 13 year old being in the ladies loo, its not like he comes into the cubicle with me. Lots of loos are unisex anyway.

Ah but unisex would surely mean all these unsavoury characters woukd now be in there with you so doesn't it lose it's safety rating then?

That’s great for you @PrincessoftheSea but lots of people do mind.

‘Lots’ of toilets are unisex? I haven’t encountered any as of yet that aren’t separate cubicles off a corridor type.

Foxjar - trying to say it in the nicest possible way - but when are you going to prepare your sons for the outside world. That is the main job of parents - prepare them to go off into the big wide world out there.

Is he in scouts/cadets? Does he go on school trips? (both of which he would be expected to use gents toilets alone at the age of 12/13). What does he do when you are not there to police his toilet habits?

I have 2 teenage girls. I was not happy last week to be in town with them and see men in the changing rooms at H&M - had not occurred to me that my girls would be sharing a changing room (curtained and unsupervised) with full grown men. Would I stop them going - no. I told them to stay together and to avoid going in there if alone - teaching them about risk and how to ameliorate it is a big part of my job as a parent.

Safeguarding without teaching is a short term sticking plaster and infantilises people to a later and later age. Unfortunately it seems it is boys who are mainly subjected to this.

The issue is one of male violence, they are by far more likely to be sexual predators than women.

Yet boys are just as vulnerable to sexual assault as girls. But that's seemingly OK, as long as they are not encroaching on female spaces .

Wondered how long it would take for someone to mention the trans word.

It's not ok for anyone to be subjecting to violence but the neither is making women and girls feel even more vulnerable. The issue of male violence needs addressing, just moving anyway for the problem doesn't mean the problem ceases to assist. As the mother of a daughter my concern is her safety and using common sense means I don't want want teenage boys (or men for that matter) in the womens loos.

As for unisex loos, I've not seen them in a public environment - the closest is a general entry hall where you then split off.

"away" not anyway - why can't we have an edit facility?

If nothing is done about it nothing will change.

There comes a point where instead of the ladies being a solution its time to try and do something. A 16 ur old doesn't matter less than a 13 yr old. An 18 yr old should also be safe. But as long as whatever goes on in the loos is allowed to continue then it will never be safe will it. And how long exactly do people think there sons can be taken into the ladies?

Are you going to cone in witg a small.16 yr old accusing women of wanting him out of being selfish? Why would an immature shirt 16 yr old be safer in the men's than a 6ft switched on 13 yr old? You have to deal at sone point and it really isn't teenage girls tweens and womens problems is it? Why are you expecting them.to solve it

But that's seemingly OK, as long as they are not encroaching on female spaces

NO, no it is not OK. Do people not see that saying we don't want teenage boys in the ladies does not mean we want them to be endangered - we want the efforts of people to go into
MAKING THE GENTS SAFE FOR EVERYONE... mums of boys rise up and campaign for safe spaces for boys, for men, rather than gradually reducing the ladies into the wee infested, gut wrenching stench filled, dark, foreboding places that men seemingly use and abuse.

You do not lock off a room in your house because it is dirty - you clean it up, you make it safe.

@Leilanii - what are you currently doing to try and make gents safer for your sons? Writing to the management where the dangerous loos in question are situated? Requesting attended loos? Writing to your MP?

I believe that women's spaces should remain just that. I have a 12 year old ds who would be mortified at the idea of using a woman's loo.

However, I do sympathise with the mother in this case. Ds is 12 and some of his fiends are tiny - they certainly don't 'loom' over anyone!

Many years ago, when dc were still very little I saw a man leaving the men's loos in our local park. As he exited, he tucked a camera back into his coat pocket. It might well have been innocent - he could have been a tourist etc. However, my gut feeling was that he had been using the camera in the loos. I have always felt uneasy about letting ds use public toilets since then. I have never stopped him from doing so, but it's worth remembering men's loos can have another more seedy side to them.

I suppose I'm trying to say that I think it is very important that women do feel protected and safe in intimate situations such as going to the loo or changing but that children (and a 13 year old is a child) HAVE to be protected too. As a parent, you have to make a judgement and it's not always black or white.

*friends - not fiends

"Yet boys are just as vulnerable to sexual assault as girls. But that's seemingly OK, as long as they are not encroaching on female spaces hmm."
I don't actually think they are. And they are certainly not subject to the amount of sexual harassment and low level sexual abuse that girls are.

But whatever, the solution to keeping boys safe should not be one that makes girls feel less safe......

Wondered how long it would take for someone to mention the trans word.
It matters because one of the central objections people have to trans women using ladies toilets is because 'ladies toilets are not for people with a penis'.

There has to be consistency. We can't say 'well ok, a 13 year old boy penis is fine but an 16 year old transwoman no, their penis isn't ok'.

It's also inconsistent to say 'in the name of safety i want a teen boy to use the ladies but then dismiss what some transwomen say they face going into the mens'.

People can't have it both ways (which is what is happening).

Ladies toilets are for women.
Mens toilets are for men.
Accessible toilets are for those who have needs requiring an accessible toilet.

We can't have a situation where the toielt options become:
Mens
Accessible
Ladies and anyone else who doesn't want to use the mens.

Children and teens are more likely to be harmed by someone known to them and their family- not some random stranger.

Once people are in their teens they should be using the correct facilities unless there are extenuating circumstances (mummy saying invade female only space is not one of those circumstanves)

The point you all seem to be missing is that these boys are accompanied by their MUMS.

I know full well they're accompanied by their mother. Last time I checked though that didn't emasculate them physically (although possibly mentally....) and they still had ownership of a penis

The point you all seem to be missing is that these boys are accompanied by their MUMS.

at the moment.

Not in UK and all this seems very outdated as where I live most loos are unisex

"The point you all seem to be missing is that these boys are accompanied by their MUMS."

Not missing that point at all.
Is that going to make a girl feel less uncomfortable at the presence of a boy in the women's loo? A place she has a perfect right to expect to be women only?