To think a 13 year old boy shouldn't use the ladies loo?

[NameChangeLulu]

NC for this. Recently I was in a situation where a group of people I was in went to a service station. A boy of 13 was told by his mother to come into the ladies with her rather than use the gents as it was safer.

AIBU to think that’s not OK?

Mum to a 14 year old boy and some of the views on here are crazy. Why are we babying our children so much? No, a grown teen shouldn't be in the ladies, they're capable of going to the toilet by themselves at that age.
At what age do you stop accompanying them? Madness.

Then Why the anger towards the posters?

Im.not afraid of boys I don't give a shit who I pee next too. Jokes on them if they wanna film under the door. Go ahead you will just vomit up your tea

But dd doesn't feel the same im.not going to tell her she has to stop being silly just so mum's of boys can be relieved their kids are off the hook.

And believe me mum's of dds are eauakky depressed that we have to send our kids off to be harassed in school and on the bus.

Im.sure both sets of parents would love a far more harmonious set of circumstances

I’ve said this before - we have got to stop taking it so personally when people point out how dangerous men can be. I have a son. I’m still terribly concerned about the fact that men are overwhelmingly responsible for the majority of violence and sexual violence. I can manage to accept that fact without making it about my son, or husband, or brother. It’s woefully unhelpful to say NAMALT.

And I agree with giles. Boys are lovely and they’d ‘never do anything like that’ - until they do. I’m raising a feminist son but he can’t escape the patriarchy, male socialisation and male privilege. At best, what I am doing is damage limitation, and the rate that men as a class commit violence I can only hope my son comes out as one of the good ones. Depressing, but true. I’ve been told on here before that that basically is me accepting him becoming a rapist - it’s not. It’s accepting that men as a class are a problem for women. And hoping that, by the time my boy reaches adulthood, they’ve become less of a problem. Here’s hoping

Confused. We can have lone male cleaners in female toilets but not a 13 year old boy being accompanied by his mum?
& whilst you can have female cleaners in male toilets it is infact very hard to recruit for, & undesirable as from experience drunken men will sometimes abuse/ grope them, so I think the comments about the Mum going with the son to the perceived danger area are wholly inappropriate when it can be avoided altogether. If all your worried about is feeling embarrassed in front of someone who is avoiding physical/sexual abuse, where oh where is your heart?
I wouldn’t judge op. You’ve not walked his/her shoes.

shorty

There are signs up which give you a choice.

The signs usually have initials under times so you know how often they are cleaned and whether a man is likely to come in to clean.

That gives a person the choice of whether to use facilities.

Not to mention the age name adress and bank details of said male cleaner girls by the company should you ever want or need to complain about inappropriate conduct.

What you don't expect are NT teenage boys standing around waiting for mummy

Held by

And actually, my dd does have her own "woman only" space at home. She can shut her bedroom door and choose whether to let her father or her brother in. Her brother has his own "male only" space as well.

I find this a bit odd? my son is almost 11 and has special needs and I would not allow him to go in the women's with me. If I felt it unsafe (not quite sure where we are all you letting that it might be unsafe?) then we would find somewhere safer or I would have a convo with him while he was in the men's. He is a young man so it is completely unacceptable for him to be toileting with mommy holding his hand. if he was less able than he already is then he would go to the disabled toilets

that should read toileting not you letting lol 🤔🤔

Ok. So if i want my son off the hook i am mum.
If i am protective i am mummy.
Condescending much?
I never said MY son was unsafe in male toilets but many posters are criticising me for something I never said.
Giles I'm not sure why you have a problem with me. I want your daughter safe. Im not taking the side of boys over girls. At all.
But the views of boys as worse is as embedded as, or perhaps as a result of, the effects of patriarchy. Gender disappoinment is much more common in mums of boys.
Men arent a class. They are half of the population. Women arent a minority group. In fact the literature on lad culture demonstrates that whilst working class lads are misogynist in their behaviors, the real sinister stuff is in middle class young males (in uni) as a result of their class privilege and a jealousy of high achieving girls. UniLad was a website shut down for condoning rape 'it isnt rape if you say surprise' and other language.
So yes it happens and it happens to girls and its shit. But if we want to reject patriarchy properly and not just moan on mumsnet about single matters then women need to reject male privilege and behaviour overall. The only way to remove mens power over women is to reject any situation where that will occur. So not having relationships with men and fulfilling their sexual needs which is the core of where men find their power. The very act of PIV is biologically controlling as they are 'in us' not 'with us'. But because women like it that"s ok then. By that I am not denying rape exists it does (rape isnt sex its violence on the most degrading manner). But whilever you want to moan away whilst demonstrating to girls that heterosexual relationships are normal in which their role is to provide sex for men, then nothing will change.
The amount of women on here who are in shit relationships or letting their kids live with a man who is controlling/violent/abusive/just a general twunt is horrific.
Even healthy marriage demonstrates to girls they must be tied to a man to be secure. They don't. So don't criticise me for sticking up for my sons when you are teaching your girls by proxy through the relationships you have chosen because of who you love. I love my sons. Doesnt make me a 'mummy'. And if they treated any girl in the ways described above I would wipe the floor with them.

I don't have a problem with you

You just seem to be taking it personally.

Men shouldn't be in the women's any nore than the women should be in the men's.

I respect the right for a man to have the same privacy and I'm sure many wpuld feel uncomfortable with women entering their space. Either through abuse or false allegations etc

I do not for one instance think that any nan not wishing to share a toilet with my dd personally hates all women.

I certainly don't hate all men.

I have not been teaching my dd anything with regards to avoiding someone merely because they are male.

I have however attempted to teach her that she should respect the sign on a door.

I don't understand why you are trying to insinuate that a female not wanting to change or pee next to a man has somehow been indoctrinated by their parents to think all boys are evil when left to their own devices they naturally just realise that at a certain point they learn that being in a more vulnerable state of dress it's not really appropriate to do so with the someone who doesn't share the same biology.

It's not sone attack on boys.

You do realise that schools don't let boys and girls board together on trips. Are you assuming they are teaching them negative ideas about members of the opposite sex?

No they are just trying to keep them.comfortable and safe.

I have a son. I’m still terribly concerned about the fact that men are overwhelmingly responsible for the majority of violence and sexual violence. I can manage to accept that fact without making it about my son, or husband, or brother.

^ this.

I have a son, a husband, a brother and a father. I cannot imagine any of them sexually assaulting anyone, but I still see the need for separate changing rooms and loos because men are overwhelmingly responsible for assaults. I don't take this as a criticism of the lovely men I know.

The only way to remove mens power over women is to reject any situation where that will occur. So not having relationships with men and fulfilling their sexual needs which is the core of where men find their power. The very act of PIV is biologically controlling as they are 'in us' not 'with us'. But because women like it that"s ok then

So women yet again have to take responsibility of the misdemeanours of some men because we have partners.....?

Mmmmmkay

Giles what if you’re already in there when the Cleaner walks in?
Again, why judge someone whom you know nothing about? He could have been a victim of abuse prior to this? It’s not appropriate for him to use the disabled facilities. Also he was invited to do so by his mother, it’s not like he just walked in on his own. He’s not going to commit some kind of crime whilst his mum is there?
And on the SN debate- some disabled facilities are only available within the gender assigned toilets.
I don’t understand why the possible embarrassment of girls should come before the safety of boys. We are talking about children.

Then you entered knowing

The signs are on the door

And how safe will any one be when people keep fleeing the men's to the ladies and more and more follow. It stops being the ladies it stops being safe for the children too

And technically they are children til they turn 18.

Where do you draw the line?

NameChangeLulu As you know the young lad I appreciate that you know for a fact he has no diagnosed SN. But he may have been abused in his past at some stage or have psychological issues with anxiety (either diagnosed or undiagnosed). My friend's parents would have no idea I am a child abuse survivor- it isn't the kind of thing many people tell their parents' friends.

sickandtiredofbeing but his history of abuse or anxiety, or not, is irrelevant to whether he should be in a facility designated for women and girls.

lils888 I suffer from bladder issues causing leaking and even incontinence. You CAN use an accesible loo for bladder issues. You can even apply for a RADAR key. Doesn't matter if you registered disabled or define yourself as disabled or not. (In my case I am registered disabled as I have multiple issues healthwise and mobility wise but someone who considers themselves as NT or ablebodied can still apply if their bladder (or bowel) issues means they could wet or soil themselves.

I got a special card from Bladder and Bowel Foundation which says I do not have to wait in queues, in case I am ever somewhere with no accessible toilets. I recommend them- pads sometimes let me down.

lils888 and even if you do not go down the RADAR route, your son can still use accessible loos- proof is not needed to use them, they are not like Blue Badge spaces

Jaques no

I just dont see how women who are so hot on womens rights (a good thing) are, in the next breath, fulfilling the needs of mens. So from saying all boys/men are potential rapists, you have gone to 'some' men.
Mmmmkay

ArcheryAnnie True. Sorry, I was not clear. My response was aimed at those who were thinking it odd that a 13 year old would need accompanying to the loo.

Though I still agree with the response an earlier poster made about waiting outside the Gents for the boy so if something happens to him he can shout for help. Unless it were a case of a boy being non-verbal due to SN or whatever.

Giles
Thanks for clarifying
I agree with you. I was not arguing that girls should share their space I just said I didnt have a problem with it in terms of feeling uncomfortable. I dont talk for all women.
Not taking it personally. If anything my comments are in response to some of the hysterical posts who found this abhorrent.
I never criticised anybody who need/want safe spaces.
This is becoming a circular argument so i will respectfully bow out now.

Jaques no
I just dont see how women who are so hot on womens rights (a good thing) are, in the next breath, fulfilling the needs of mens. So from saying all boys/men are potential rapists, you have gone to 'some' men.
Mmmmkay

I am fulfilling my needs.....we fulfill each other's needs.

All men are not rapists. I have never said that. All men have the potential to be. A woman can't be a rapist....

Ok interesting segue.

If I were in the ladies with my DD - if you came in with your 13 year old and she said "hmmm not ok", I would ask you to leave.

So what do you do?