To think a 13 year old boy shouldn't use the ladies loo?

[NameChangeLulu]

NC for this. Recently I was in a situation where a group of people I was in went to a service station. A boy of 13 was told by his mother to come into the ladies with her rather than use the gents as it was safer.

AIBU to think that’s not OK?

The sooner we have mixed gender lavatories the sooner this ridiculous business of boys being 2nd class citizens will stop.

Is this meant to be a joke?

HousefulOfBoys then how old do your boys have to be before they are allowed to go into a toilet by themselves? And do you really want your boys to grow up to be the kind of men who don't give a shit about the privacy and safety of women and girls? Because that's what you are teaching them

You've obviously not read my posts. In the vast majority of cases both of my older ds's aged 7 and 9, use the mens room.

They use the ladies with me on the rare occasion I feel the mens room available is too dangerous or dirty. Sometimes it's a judgement call as it's fine, just incredibly busy, so I make Ds2 come in with me whilst ds1 goes to the mens on his own. There's a huge difference in the common sense of a 7 and a 9 year old IME.

Anyway, dress it up how you will, tell me I'm raising future rapists and abusers if you must.

It makes no difference to me. I'm not hysterical or particularly anxious or paranoid and nor do I coddle my children. For me to take either ds into the ladies means I genuinely feel there is a risk to them if I don't do so.

And in those rare cases, yes, I 100% stand by the statement that my child being safe IS more important than you or your child feeling safe. So you have no choice but to suck it up tbh because that's my choice, not yours.

Gender neutral cubicles just means women have to put up with men pissing on the seat and floor.

"For me to take either ds into the ladies means I genuinely feel there is a risk to them if I don't do so."

Can you give an example of the sort of circumstances this might happen?

Gender neutral cubicles just means women have to put up with men pissing on the seat and floor.

Yeah, but the men have to put up with women leaving bloody sanitary products all over the place.

🙄

Bert I did a few pages back.

One time, I took them into the ladies with me because there was a large group of pissed up men in and out of the mens in the restaurant we were in. No chance I'm sending them in there alone.

Dh once took them into the mens (public toilets on a street on holiday in the U.K. so we had no idea if there were any others about). He walked in with the dc and about 5 seconds later came out and said to take them in the ladies as it was that filthy he didn't want them in there (shit and spunk up the walls filthy...the ladies was ok).

Sometimes Ds2 will come in with me purely because we're somewhere really busy, with a constant stream of people past. Ds2 panics if he looses sight of us for more than 10 seconds as he has a fear of being lost...it doesn't affect his actual actions and he'd use the mens happily at all times. But if he lost sight of ds1 which is more likely when busy, he'd panic and bolt...not a risk I'm willing to take unless we're in a 'safe' environment like a restaurant.

You obviously lead a much more exciting life than I do......

But actually, in such exceptional circumstances, I might take an under 10 year old into the women's loo too. With a brief apology if there was anyone else in there.

I struggle to get my 6 year old to come into the ladies with me.

HousefulofBoys I actually have no problem with a 7 year old boy in the ladies, and probably wouldn't with a 9 year old, either, though it depends on the boy. But a teenage boy, a 13 year old - the subject of the OP's post - is quite a different matter. Post-pubertal boys are frequently man-sized, but people on this thread are describing them as "little boys", when they are evidently no such thing.

I think gender neutral cubicles (supervised, because I totally agree on the ones in Camden!) are the way forward ultimately.

In the meantime, it does put some people in an awkward position. For all the people saying 'you're entitled to use the accessible toilet' it's actually not that simple. A lot of disabled toilets are locked and have pretty tight criteria on who is allowed to use it and yes, often that does come down to having physical disabilities/severe learning disabilities. There is a lot of debate about who should be allowed to use the accessible toilet amongst disabled people and it is awful to have someone have a go at you because 'you shouldn't be in there.' I know that I have had people tell me I shouldn't use the accessible toilet even though I have ASD and can't deal with the hand driers.

As a general rule, no, a 13 year old boy shouldn't be in the ladies toilet. But even outside of SN, there are exceptions, trauma being one of them. If, as an adult woman, I don't feel safe sharing confined spaces with unknown adult men, a 13 year old boy who has been assaulted by men probably doesn't either. If he's only accompanied by his mother and if, for arguments sake, he can't use the accessible toilet, then yes, I think he should be allowed in the ladies. I'm not saying it's a perfect solution, but it's a lesser of two evils. One boy accompanied by his mother is less threatening to the girls and women than adult men are to that boy.

13 year old boys vary a lot in size. Some boys have not reached puberty by that age. One of my DBs was taller than me at 13, the other still passed for a 9 year old.

I took my DS into the ladies with me until he was about that age. No-one ever said anything, though I got a few looks. He has autism and is very vulnerable because he instantly trusts everyone he meets. He was either coming in with me, or I was going into the gents' with him.

Yeah, but the men have to put up with women leaving bloody sanitary products all over the place.

I've got to my forties without ever seeing that. But I did mistakenly use a mens loo at the gym recently, and it was noticeably filthy. Skidmarks in every pan and shit on a loo seat.

One boy accompanied by his mother is less threatening to the girls and women than adult men are to that boy.

Thing is, that's not your call to make. You can't say how threatening teenage boys are to other women and girls, only to yourself.

It's a female toilet. For females. If you don't feel your teen son is safe in the gents, then it's up to you to find a place that's safe and appropriate for him to go - that place is NOT the ladies loos. Yes, you want to keep your kid safe, and that's important and I sympathise. You don't do it by ignoring a system (sex-segregated toilets) that it set up to protect an entire sex.

Yy jam, that's the heart of it isn't it.

Girls and women can have boundaries , privacy, dignity, safety...unless/until a male decides they can't...?

soup women don't leave bloody sanitary products, all over the place.

soup women don't leave bloody sanitary products, all over the place.

Being a woman I know that. I was deliberately using a lazy generalisation as a response to one. You may not have been able to see the eye roll emoji at the bottom.

Oh, apologies soup! I thought you was serious

I think Bert and Jam make some good points.

For females. If you don't feel your teen son is safe in the gents, then it's up to you to find a place that's safe and appropriate for him to go.

So where might that be then? And why does female safety trump male safety, all the time? Why is it OK for our son's to be put in dangerous situations but not our daughters?

I have been a feminist my entire life. However, the shift that we are now seeing in favour of girls over boys makes my heart sink.

Is that really what you see in the world around you? I see female safety being sacrificed for male convenience all the bloody time. When it comes to sexual assault, women are predominantly the victims and men the perpetrators, which is why female safety needs to come up the priority list. And no, no all men are predators but a lot are, and you can't tell by looking. Until you can then women will need safe spaces, or men will need to be chaperoned. Which do you prefer?

He's still a child not a problem for me. Hate the demonisation of young men. I am more worried about my boys than my girls

BarbarianMum, in the examples used here (boys using female toilets) the boys are being chaperoned - by their mums.

And let me ask you this: if all toilets were unisex, would you be happy to let your DD go into the toilet - unsupervised - if there were men in there? No? Then why should it be OK for our sons? They are just as vulnerable as our daughters.

My sons (9 and 11) have been going to the mens unaccompanied since the age of 8 Leilanii. I wouldnt send them into either a dodgy toilet or one for the opposite sex. And if I asked them to be chaparoned into the womens by me they'd flatly refuse anyway, on account of mens toilets being by and large safe.

I don't have a

"He's still a child not a problem for me. Hate the demonisation of young men. I am more worried about my boys than my girls"

Nobody is demonising young men. We are just saying that girls have a right to use the loo without the presence of "young men" (your term)

Incidentally, why are you more worried about your boys than your girls? I understand that boys are more likely to be the victims of violence, but you can't possibly think that they are also more likely to suffer sexual violence or harassment than girls?