To think a 13 year old boy shouldn't use the ladies loo?

[NameChangeLulu]

NC for this. Recently I was in a situation where a group of people I was in went to a service station. A boy of 13 was told by his mother to come into the ladies with her rather than use the gents as it was safer.

AIBU to think that’s not OK?

Who is teaching these girls to be scared of 10 year old boys?

The 10 year old boys are.

www.theguardian.com/education/2003/may/30/schools.uk

What are girls being taught if they are so scared of a 13 year old boy washing his hands next to them? Particularly a 13 year old boy with not only his mother but a group of relatives? As scary things go it doesn't rate very highly does it.

Yes of course it's the girls who are uncomfortable with boys they don't know on an enclosed space who have the problem

My 7 year old son refuses to go in the Ladies so I hover about the door of the Gents conspicuously calling him every 30 seconds, it's a compromise. Same with the swimming pool but I'm happy for him to change in the gents as it's family swimming and its full of small boys and their dads. The swimming pool had to make a stand because women were bringing their 10 and 11 year old boys into the ladies changing, and adult men were barging in with their small daughters. Despite the fact that there are about 6 loos they could use as an alternative. It's just fucking male entitlement really.

What does he do when he’s out with his friends? Presumably at 13 he and his friends won't be at service stations without an adult and quite likely wouldn't be alone in the loo.

As scary things go it doesn't rate very highly does it.

grannytomine I think you need to educate yourself on the reality of the levels of harrassment that many, many girls experience from boys, both at the primary level (primary, for goodness sake!) and at secondary. Many, many girls have every good reason not to want teenage boys in their spaces.

granny I was sexually assaulted by a man in a public place at 13 and had serious PTSD for a couple of years where I got very frightened if I was alone with a man.My experience is really common. It taught me the important lesson that women need to be wary of men in general. Sad but true. You think I should've just got over myself though

Dd isn't always in the cubicle either. If they are out with dp she often has to take dd2 to the loos as she's to getting a bit to old to use the men's with dp but still needs accompanying and maybe lifting up to reach the sink. So dd1 will take her.

Can I just ask?

Where would a young sexually abused by a male boy go? Ok so ladies is out, disabled isn’t ok, where would that leave the boy?

If it isn't safe for a man to be in a woman dominated space such as a loo then it is not safe for a woman to be sent to the male dominated space to ensure her child is okay.

It isn't boys v girls it is parents making sure their children are safe.

The mother had reasons, the boy complied which also may indicate reasons you know nothing about.

So many posters have talked about their male relatives being abused and harrassed in male toilets when they were younger and yet that is okay if it means a teenage girl isn't put out by a boy washing his hands next to her?

My DS is 12 and if I don't feel the gents is safe or clean, then he will use the ladies.

You seriously go in the gents loos to check if its clean before you allow your DS to use it? If so thats very odd behaviour!

Same place it leaves the sexually assulted girls. Having to share with the boys they don't want there.

Do you have older sons Giles? It's very easy to sit in judgement and say 'I would never' when you are childless or only have dd's or very young boys who are universally accepted in ladies loos so far.

In the very specific example given by liles what would you do? Would you let your ten year old wet themselves? Would you send them alone into a space well known to be frequented by addicts shooting up and hope for the best?

Just because a child has a penis, it doesn't mean they are better at handling themselves or are less at risk than one without. As parents, it also doesn't mean we're more likely to risk the safety of our own children any more just because they're a boy.

So what would you have done?

Giles Dd isn't always in the cubicle either.

What does that even mean? She takes dd2 to the loo and then waits outside. This means she should be embarrassed or scared of a boy in another cubicle who also has his mother there?
Unless she's pissing on the floor in the middle of the room what is there to be put off by?

Quite a few people have posted about girls and women being harrassed/assaulted by boys and men, and the press is full of this at the moment - yet strangely that doesn't seem to register. Anyone might think it mattered less somehow.

I have 2 dds.

Dp has had to face the dilema a few times.

We know where all potential toilets are. And where the safer ones are.

If that means having to say buy a coffee to use the loos that's what he did.

So many posters have talked about their male relatives being abused and harrassed in male toilets

Using the ladies instead doesn't solve the issue it just increases the danger to everyone.

Barbarian and Baroness it does solve the issue because we are talking about children who are accompanied by their mother.
If a boy is a danger to his child while his mother is present, I'd assume the mother is more of a danger for accepting and encouraging this.

Personally I'd assume some kind of cut-off line which might be as late as 10 if the location is scary (though then I would try to compromise by say buying a coffee in a safer location) but definitely before 13.

By 13 ds already had the physique of a man- he would not have looked any safer than a 16yo from the pov of any woman in the loos. (for the same reason, I told him he could not go trick and treating with his mates- because he was already at a size and appearance where people might find him intimidating)

And though he might not have been going to service stations on his own, he certainly would have gone to public loos in the city centre.

Surely the way to do this if you are worried as a mother is to stand just outside the loo and tell them to shout out at any sign of trouble.

SN aside, why should 13 year old girls have to put up with 13 year old boys in a ladies loo. Sometimes I think some adults forget how it was to be 13. I would simply have refused to go to the toilet.
I also worry at a non SN 13 year old boy who allows his mum to take him to a ladies toilet.

Where would a young sexually abused by a male boy go? Ok so ladies is out, disabled isn’t ok, where would that leave the boy?

This is an excellent question, one that should be answered by making men's loos safer, not by making women's loos less safe.

And I think that the accessible loo is OK. The purpose of accessible loos is access, after all - to have a space where people who, for whatever reason, can't use regular loos can go to the loo. These may be people who use wheelchairs, people with IBS, people with SN who can't cope with hand dryers, or whatever. If a boy cannot use the mens' loos at all then the accessible loo is next in line.

But still the focus should be put on making the mens' spaces accessible to all men and boys , not to stealing the women's space.

You're not answering the question Giles.

Of course if you're able to buy a coffee in a nearby cafe with toilets, you do.

In this instance, assume it's not possible and flip the situation for your family set up.

Your dh is in the train station alone with your ten year old dd. She needs the toilet. He can't simply take her down the street somewhere else as his train is due. The accessible toilet is locked. His options are A. Let her wet herself. B. Send her into the ladies alone when it is well known that druggies use them to shoot up, and just hope for the best. C. Take her into the men's with him, where he can supervise her.

What would he do? What would you want him to do?

sailorcherries it increases the issue because instead of tackling male behaviour that causes it in the first place it teaches the next generation that males do not need to modify their behaviour but women need to make room for them. It perpetuates male entitlement.

She goes into the ladies and your dh stands at the door in voice contact. Which is what I've always done with my sins since age 8. Although the toilets round here and in the service stations ive used do not seem to be as dangerous as those being described here.

Go on the train.

Speak to staff find out if there is anywhere else they can use or to go onto the ladies and check it's clear.

Or take her somewhere else and get the next train.

Usually if we have to get a train we make sure they go before we leave the house.

We also wouldn't further witg ages and ages to spare so they d be waiting 15 mins max. If they needed it in the 15 mins we were there they could easily have gone at home first.

If we are in town significantly befire the train is due we would go somewhere but a coffee or whatever and use the loos there before we got ro the train station.