To not notice I was being excluded!

[Mrbluethecatt]

I work with 4 other women all of which are at least 10 years older and have worked together for a long time. Initially when I started 6 months ago I was invited to go out for lunch or coffee. This then petered out. I wasn't that bothered as we have little in common and have different ideas and opinions.

I have noticed that they often go out for lunch and coffee, met up at weekends etc and often discuss these occasions at work. I do join in if they are talking about work or TV like bake off so I don't just ignore them.

I've been getting growlers and looks over the last few weeks which I have been ignoring. This has escalated to tuts and huffs if I speak to them. I asked one of them if there was a problem, she said there wasn't.

I've had a email this afternoon from my manager wanting all of us to meet tomorrow to discuss what's being going on over the last 6 months. My response was what do you mean? What has been going on? My manager then forwarded me an email he received from one of the women essentially saying that I have been distant and haven't been actively sociable with them. Haven't invited them to my home, to meet my family etc. So on the back of this they have been excluding me from their activities and Facebook group. They are upset I haven't noticed and have therefore caused an atmosphere at work.

Aibu to....well I don't know. What do I do now?

I forgot to add, I think I would consider yanking the thread too. It would only take one of them to discover it and everyone would be very identifiable. It could potentially really compromise you in HR terms. JMHO. It must be hard to know who to discuss all this with if your DH is away, though.

If it's a large organisation there is a reasonable chance this team will be broken up and the manager moved elsewhere. Even if these nasty fuckwits are good at their jobs, their behaviour has left the organisation open to a messy lawsuit - and if they pay you off and you move on, the team will treat your replacement the next employee the same way, and it may even get worse. Everything about their behaviour is creepy and inappropriate and bullying.
I have had work friends before, and worked in an office where we quite often socialised at the end of the day. (Two of my closest and oldest friends are people I met through work) However, there were always people in the department who didn't socialise as much and no one cared. As long as they got the work done and could manage a civil sentence or two if you bumped into them at the coffee machine, there was no expectation that anyone was entitled to know anything about your personal life, or spend time with you outside work.
I know there are jobs where 'socialising' is required, but this is usually socialising with clients, and made clear at the interview stage. No one owes their free time to their colleagues.

(There was a thread not all that long ago, but in this case it was a single workplace bully determined to push her way into that thread's OP's home, to the extent of threatening to track her down and driving round her hometown looking for her: don't know what the outcome was but the OP in that thread said that other colleagues disliked and avoided the pushy person as well.)

I’ve been in a similar situation OP. IME when you’ve got a clique that are used to ruling the roost, it’s virtually impossible to do anything about them. I’d cut my losses and find another job.

Can’t understand what you don’t want to socialise with them, they sound lovely! Don’t let them force you out OP.

Mmm, I’ve met these types before, they are manipulative & playing a game to discredit you. They are small minded idiots, who feel threatened by anyone who isn’t worried about not being part of their clique, Do watch your back though. This is bullying. Your manager is responsible for nipping this in the bud. Stay calm, factual & surprised when telling your side of the story & you will be fine. Good luck

nil carborundum illegitimi

Holy shit

I’m just gobsmacked at this tbh. They sound like bloody loons

It is not school they cannot report you for wanting to be your friend Actually schools cannot do this either.

That is lunacy! Your manager is surely not going along with this? They admit trying to exclude and intimidate you at work but think that is a failing on your part that you did not respond?

This!

I disagree with the comments from pps who think female dominated work environments are bitchy, mean environments. For 7 years I worked on a team of 10 (8 women and 2 men) and it was a peaceful, comfortable straightforward environment. I could just do my job to the best of my ability without being undercut or experiencing any negativity. I progressed upwards as did others on my team based purely on fuss free performance achievements. I have never since had such a positive work environment.

I changed careers, went back to school and started as a new Associate Attorney at my first law firm (newly qualified). I was about 5-7 years older than my peers at that firm and it was the most bitchy, cliquey, gossipy environment I ever experienced. Honestly it was like Lord of the Flies but with a mixed female-male gang doing the terrorising! Thankfully I moved onwards and upwards after a year but I still remember my surprise to learn that there is no one more bitchy, backstabbing and entitled than ambitious young male attorneys - they were far worse than the females.

It's too simplistic to generalise that female or male dominated work environments are better or worse. The nature of the work, company culture etc... have more of an impact.

There is no requirement for you to be friends with anyone you work. If it is a small company then or they 4 very visual/important people in the company then any perceived distance / break in a friendship will be highlighted.

Before the meeting explain to your manager you think this meeting is a waste of everyone's time. This is personal matter - not a work issue and if they really have a problem about the lack of socialising they they need to explain to you directly why they started to exclude you as you didn't actively start this and don't think this a problem.

You don't have to socalise with people outside of work. Yes, be pleasant and friendly and go for a drink/coffee or lunch with people if you want, but that is not why the company employed you.

OP, just another person saying I have complete sympathy for you. Just remember you are not the weird one here. You’ve been stuck in a room with some very strange people. Please don’t lose a job you like over their stupidity. Surely they will change your manager or let you work from home.

Best of luck with it all. for you. Please don’t let them make you cry anymore.

blue this is crap.

"I honestly love this job. It's a perfect extension to the work I did in my PhDs. It will be a shame to leave it. Maybe I could just work from home with a different manager? My current manager hasn't really had an input on my work so far."

Is this still an option?

You said "Financially we will be ok for a while when I am looking for a new job. I just really loved the one I had. But I can't go back there."

Please make sure you get a good reference. This is a horrible situation. Look into constructive dismissal as well.

These women and the boss are batshit crazy, as everyone else has said.

You have the evidence from them that they have been bullying and attempting to manipulate you. They are ignorant as well as vicious!

Surely HR simply needs to go back to the manager and politely explain:

Dear Bob,

As much as it's wonderful when our team members develop friendships outside the office, this is in no way a professional requirement of Company X. We support and expect good team relationships within the workplace, and anything outside it is a matter of personal discretion, not company expectation. Please ensure this is understood among the team.

Best regards,
HR

It's exactly the reason I enjoy working in a male industry

I also work in a male dominated industry and they are without a shadow of a doubt 100x more snide, bitchy, calculating, underhand and gossipy than any female teams I've worked on.

Bore off with your casual misogyny.

Totally agree about men's ability to be underhand and gossipy.

I am apparently not inclusive because I don't talk about what I did at the weekend. I did point out no one's ever asked, and equally, I don't usually know what any of them did at the weekend. HR just said there''s no obligation to talk about things outside of work matters. My lot are amateurs compared with yours.

Hope the HR guy come up trumps. From what you say, he's quite on the ball.

Have to agree male dominated work places can also be very bitchy/cliquey/gossipy - military brat plus ex military wife plus worked in mod civil service. I mostly enjoyed it but wow sonetimes! Ex was a victim of bullying a few times. Also a career where not socialising/embracing the close community culture results pretty much directly to poor annual assessments and career suicide. You're very much expected to go to the balls, sports events, charity events...

Ex much as he's an arse was disadvantaged by this as he's an introvert.

They're all feckin' nuts OP (well, except HR guy).

My favourite line in that e-mail was: "In an attempt to motivate her to become more open we have purposely not invited to her to recent events such as our Halloween party."

Because obviously the best way to encourage someone to become more open and friendly with you is to purposefully and passively aggressively exclude them from things.

Bore off with your casual misogny

^this

I have always worked in predominantly female environments and have rarely had any issues other than the odd personality clash and certainly never personally experienced any nastiness or bullying. I did work in one place with an awful cliquey/ bullying culture which had gone unchecked for many years (nursing home) but left pretty sharpish.
On the other hand I know several people who have worked for the MOD and who have become ill through work place bullying so it really is dependant on the managers not the sex of the people working there.

Interesting how people keep saying the same about MoD - bullying is rife! I am very interested in the Staff Survey results this year...

Anyway - keep us informed OP, ehar a ridiculous situation to find yourself in at work! They sound batshit crazy.

so it really is dependant on the managers not the sex of the people working there.

This is so true - good management can make or break a workplace. I've seen happy ones transform into joyless one upmanship cultures, and a miserable one that I quit, rife with bullying, has apparently become really cohesive and effective after a new manager came in.

All mostly women, it doesn't make a difference. Management does.

I used to work in an organisation overwhelmingly staffed by women. The worst two shit-stirrers, without a doubt, were two of the blokes!

Lazy gender stereotypes help no one here.

Hope you’re ok this morning, op.

Another ex civil servant from the MOD, and also bullied by a male ex uniformed manager.

I work somewhere really nice now.