To think suspending the teacher was extreme?

[LouBlue1507]

A maths teacher has been suspended, probably going to be sacked for accidently calling a trans child a girl whilst referring 'well done girls' to a small group of girls. He apologised for his mistake, but weeks later the parents complained.

I don't think he's helped himself by going to the press and 'This Morning' but for a class of pupils to lose a good teacher over this?

It's obvious that the majority of teachers need training on transgender, gender fluid etc. It's not fair that they are thrown in the deep end with no training what so ever. I bet most don't even know what half of it even means!

Agree with hotbuttered it is not necessary to have a diagnosis parents speaking to the school and saying this is what the child wants would be enough in most schools.

You're not serious, Flo, are you? You don't think that's actually how its working?

Pay attention, I don't condone him. I said the opposite

How many trans people do you think actually have gender dysphoria?

And pushing his religious beliefs in maths lessons
I doubt this is a man I’d want to spend much time with, but didn’t he mention biblical view of marriage in a Christian, extra-curricular Club? Not quite a maths lesson!

Not quite a maths lesson!

Theiggorcist i didn't just invent the bit about maths lessons. It's part of the investigation stated in the article i posted at 9.05

The investigation had concluded that misgendering the boy demonstrates “avoidance of using gendered pronouns contravenes the school’s code of conduct with regard to demonstrating an awareness of sexual and cultural diversity of students and use of insensitive comments towards young people” as well as “the use of religious comments in maths lessons demonstrates a failure to comply with school policies.”

9.50 rather

The school policy is a statement of an extreme and controversial political position which is not founded in science or evidence. In all likelihood, there was little opportunity for anyone to oppose the policy when it was introduced nor to have any meaningful opposition to it now that it is in force. In addition, everyone who is subject to the policy is required to affirm their belief in the political viewpoint that a male person can determine themselves be a female person or a female person can determine themselves to be a male person by using language which denotes a female is actually a male.

There is a fundamental importance in being able to speak the truth. As Voltaire said "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." And Orwell: "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."

It's not good enough to simply say "it's the policy and therefore he should be fired for not complying with it". The question is whether the policy is the right one.

Ah, I see thank you. I’d be interested to know what kind of remarks he made.

How many trans people do you think actually have gender dysphoria?

I've wondered about this myself. nhs.uk says "A survey of 10,000 people undertaken in 2012 by the Equality and Human Rights Commission found that 1% of the population surveyed was gender variant, to some extent", but what "to some extent" actually involves is anyone's guess

A lot of the discussion, though, concerns the legislation which would deem a diagnosis unnecessary; as I understand it, anyone could simply declare themselves to be whatever sex they choose and expect to be treated as that sex, with all this involves

Which, to some, is an abomination

If another pupil was to treat another pupil like this they would be punishing for bullying. For a maths teacher to treat a vulnerable pupil like this, it is abuse.

It is not a clash of ideologies or a debate about the facts, its about a teacher refusing to follow school policy and abusing a child in their care.

This fundamentalist preacher has gone on national TV expressing his bigoted views on gays and transsexuals. How can he ever teach in any school again.

It is not a clash of ideologies or a debate about the facts, its about a teacher refusing to follow school policy and abusing a child in their care

Lets be careful here. I don't know the details of this case (most of us don't) but calling a female pupil a girls is NOT abusing a child in their care and you should think far more carefully before saying such things.

He hasnt abused a pupil in his care.

Sacked for calling a female child a girl. How pathetic. Though not surprising. We live in a world of doublespeak these days.

It is not a clash of ideologies or a debate about the facts, its about a teacher refusing to follow school policy and abusing a child in their care.

"Humans are a sexually dimorphic species" is not an ideology, just as natural selection is not an ideology.
"Human sex is determined by an individual's view of themselves" is an ideology just as "the earth was created by God in seven days" is an ideology.

Should Clarence Darrow have told John Snopes he deserved to be fired for refusing to follow the school policy of not teaching evolution?

After watching him on this morning, I wouldn't want him teaching my child.

but calling a female pupil a girls is NOT abusing a child in their care
Its not just that though. This is a vulnerable child who's sexuality/gender & possibly mental heath is fragile. And a pastor who preaches at church, runs a bible club in the school and who teaches maths is setting an example of how other pupils should impose bigoted religious fundamentalist views on a child. Its abuse.

After watching him on this morning

How did he justify his anti-transgender beliefs? I'm interested, given that transgenderism is not mentioned in the bible.

Does anyone seriously think that feminists want to be mean to children? That they want to distress children who might already be suffering?

Do they really think this is just a matter of principle? Cos it’s patriarchy, innit?

The suspension of this maths teacher has raised an issue that has massively far reaching implications.

His religious beliefs are immaterial. He is objecting to being forced to lie. By the state.

He is objecting to not being given the right to oppose a state sanctioned opinion. An opinion that requires the denial of science and biology.

Imagine a pair of scales. On the one side you have kindness and inclusivity. And on the other side you have the denial of science and the upholding of free speech.

Free speech does not mean anyone can say what they like. Free speech means that the government cannot mandate what you say.

There are incidents around free speech that have been culturally accepted. Like hate speech.

But this is different. This is mandating that you lie.

You may think it doesn’t matter.

You would be wrong.

Scotland has sanctioned the dissemination of transgender information to schools, both primary and secondary.

These guidelines advocate directly for state intervention between the authority of parents and the authority of schools. State schools.

"If a transgender young person wants to share a room with other young people who share their gender identity, they should be able to do so.
If a transgender young person is sharing a room with their peers, there is no reason for parents or carers of the other young people to be informed"

You, as parents, will not be told if a boy who has had no surgery and is totally heterosexual is sleeping in the same room as your daughters.

Neither will you be told if your daughter has come out as trans at school and wants to sleep in the boys’ room.

If you, as a parent, disagree that your child is trans, you have no authority.

How many women on here have been utterly convinced that they would have been considered trans as children?

Why are 2000 children a year being referred to clinics, when only 37 of them will have gender dysphoria?

1963 children are confused.

“If parents/carers are struggling to come to terms with their child's identity, teachers should make sure that there is a plan to support the young person in school. It may also be useful to approach the local authority for additional guidance.
Whatever the home situation, supportive or otherwise, schools need to keep young people at the centre of any decisions which affect them. Sometimes this means giving young people the chance to voice opinions which differ from their parents/carers.”

In fact, if you don’t support them, social services are a phone call away.

I would think very, very deeply before you clamour to dispense with your right to oppose factually incorrect state sanctioned opinion.

Because you want to be kind.

www.lgbtyouth.org.uk/files/documents/Supporting_Transgender_Young_People_-_Digital_version.pdf

But then you read the rest of this story and it turns out he's a massive homophobe and fundamentalist Christian. It wasn't a mistake, he was deliberately refusing to use correct pronouns, choosing to address by name instead. There have been a lot of other issues as well. He did not cover himself in glory when he went on This Morning yesterday.

Ah I see. Should rtft before posting. I really must get into that habit

Yes it would have been OTT and ridiculous to suspend a teacher for calling a female child she. But it sounds there was a lot more to it than that.

Though, whats wrong with using the childs name, rather than a pronoun? I do that quite often when possible. Helps me not to slip up in the ridiculous self indulgent nature of demanding specific pronouns. I once had some idiot telling us that his chosen pronoun was 'it'. I shit you not.

How did he justify his anti-transgender beliefs?
Because the Bible says that god created mankind in his own image. Male and female.... Not male female and trans.

Lol, thanks Julie8008. Typical nonsense, of course.

If an anorexic girl tells you she is fat, is it abuse to tell her she is not fat?

Datun, he didn’t need to lie. He just needed to refer to his students as “students.”

He also needed to teach them math.

Being obsessed with their gender wasn’t part of his job. Using instructional time and his position of power to spread his religious views was inappropriate.

So much transphobia! this place really is the worst place for transphobia I have seen.

Why can't y'all just accept kids know who they are from an early age.

When did you all know you were who you are? did all you CIS females all know you were female from an early age? they why can't trans kids know they are trans from an early age?

the teacher was a jerk. He should be fired.

But this is different. This is mandating that you lie

No it isn't, its a job that has rules, dont like the rules dont accept the job. No one is asking you to lie in your personal life but when you are at work you are usually contractually obliged to follow your employers rules, whether you like them or not!

This man really should not be looking after children.