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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think suspending the teacher was extreme?

523 replies

LouBlue1507 · 14/11/2017 09:25

A maths teacher has been suspended, probably going to be sacked for accidently calling a trans child a girl whilst referring 'well done girls' to a small group of girls. He apologised for his mistake, but weeks later the parents complained.

I don't think he's helped himself by going to the press and 'This Morning' but for a class of pupils to lose a good teacher over this?

It's obvious that the majority of teachers need training on transgender, gender fluid etc. It's not fair that they are thrown in the deep end with no training what so ever. I bet most don't even know what half of it even means!

OP posts:
sanddune11 · 14/11/2017 18:28

It's pathetic. Why should a good teacher lose his job because some stupid parents are allowing their child to change sex. You're either a boy or a girl, you don't get to decide. Bloody outrageous. I hate the way this country's going. The lunatics really have taken over the asylum.

Floellabumbags · 14/11/2017 18:29

hotbutteredcrumpetsandtea

I'm just interested in your views. You've posted a lot on this thread and much of it appears as though you're contradicting your own opinions.

FloraFox · 14/11/2017 18:33

Why can't y'all just accept kids know who they are from an early age.

Erm, kids have all sorts of crazy ideas about who they are or whether they want to grow up to be horses or monkeys. Because they are kids. It's our job as adults to help them learn what is real and what they can change. Sex is the former, not the latter. It's not kind to encourage children to think they can wish themselves to be something they are not, especially where that will lead them into a life of medical intervention, infertility and loss of sexual function. That's not kind.

Julie8008 · 14/11/2017 18:36

Why should a good teacher lose his job because some stupid parents are allowing their child to change sex

First, we dont know if he is a 'good' teacher, from what I have read he puts his religion above children's welfare so I would say he is a bad teacher.
Secondly, the parents probably aren't stupid they are likely trying to stop their child from killing themselves and the teachers behavior was probably contributing to why the child was likely to kill themselves.

So the real question is, why was this teacher not sacked sooner before he caused some poor child to commit suicide.

hotbutteredcrumpetsandtea · 14/11/2017 18:39

I haven't posted anymore than anyone else and I haven't contradicted anything. One can hold several overlapping views at the same time.

Can we stop repeating over and over that kids are going to kill themselves if they don't get to pretend to change sex at a very young age? That's not at all borne out by evidence and is irresponsible and unhelpful.

Julie8008 · 14/11/2017 18:45

Can we stop repeating over and over that kids are going to kill themselves if they don't get to pretend to change sex at a very young age?

If posters stop saying the parents are stupid for letting this happen, then yes. But because we dont know the specifics then it is valid in the face of ignorance to continue to point out there are good reasons for some parents to allow this.

hotbutteredcrumpetsandtea · 14/11/2017 18:46

And there are bad reasons too, if you want to be honest.

NC4now · 14/11/2017 18:47

Haven’t rtft but I reckon he’s getting sacked for running to the press and damaging the school’s reputation.
It wasn’t going to end well, was it?

DiegoMadonna · 14/11/2017 18:48

Even if you think transgenderism is a load of crap, you don't have to be a genius to realise that a teenager who thinks they are the wrong gender is emotionally fragile. You'd have to be an arsehole to deliberately and repeatedly ignore that fact.

And arseholes don't make good teachers.

Floellabumbags · 14/11/2017 18:48

Can we stop repeating over and over that kids are going to kill themselves if they don't get to pretend to change sex at a very young age?

It's gender, not sex.

hotbutteredcrumpetsandtea · 14/11/2017 18:50

Which is why I said pretend to change sex. Or are you yet another TRA that doesn't understand the distinction?

Puzzledandpissedoff · 14/11/2017 18:52

its a job that has rules, dont like the rules dont accept the job

In many ways I agree, but what happens when those rules are changed during employment - especially if the new ones require you to declare, in effect, that black is white?

The obvious answer may well be to resign, but then is it right to leave children to be damaged by those in thrall to some crazed fad, unhindered by anyone who might offer a more balanced view?

Datun · 14/11/2017 18:55

If 41% of kids have suicide ideation, and 2000 children showed up at clinics, where are the 820 kids who have committed suicide?

Because that’s 15 a week.

And, I know, thoughts of suicide do not equal results.

But to form an argument, that if you don’t agree, it will result in suicide there ought to be statistics. Where are they?

Floellabumbags · 14/11/2017 18:55

I understand the distinction very well, thank you for checking.

I'd appreciate you answering my questions if you are capable.

Julie8008 · 14/11/2017 18:55

And there are bad reasons too, if you want to be honest

Their probably are, but until you are the parent of a child in this situation I really dont think anyone has a clue what their talking about. Certainly some random zealot preacher shouldn't be allowed to impose their 'medieval' beliefs on such a vulnerable child.

jellyfrizz · 14/11/2017 18:56

When did you all know you were who you are?

Gender-wise? Still don't, I would rather gender wasn't a thing and people could present how they wished without fuss.

Body-wise I'm female. If I'd had a choice as a kid or teenager it would have been boy deffo as I certainly didn't want periods or breasts. Would happily do without them now actually but I've made peace with my body and accept my woman's body but do not accept that my body means I should feel, or dress, or act a certain way.

DiegoMadonna · 14/11/2017 18:58

Puzzledandpissedoff

But a teacher repeatedly telling a transgender student that she is actually a girl/boy is not going to help her/him. The teacher in this case was not valiantly defending the poor children. He was being a bully.

As an adult in a position of responsibility, he should know that there are better ways of fighting against rules he doesn't like than trying to upset children. Seriously, it's not rocket science

TheFallenMadonna · 14/11/2017 19:00

I think that post by DiegoMadonna sums it up for me. This teacher was not engaging on a political level with the issues around gender. Not until they were suspended anyway.

IsadoraQuagmire · 14/11/2017 19:04

She's a girl. She'll never, ever be a boy however much surgery she has and no matter how many hormones she takes. The teacher was perfectly right.

Datun · 14/11/2017 19:06

CoyoteCafe

Datun, he didn’t need to lie. He just needed to refer to his students as “students.”

He also needed to teach them math.

Being obsessed with their gender wasn’t part of his job. Using instructional time and his position of power to spread his religious views was inappropriate

Religious views is one thing, disagreeing with an ideology is a separate thing.

Most people on here are hung up with the disagreement, that is backed up by his religion.

We need to separate the two. I disagree with the ideology, and my opinion is not backed up by religion.

But it doesn’t really matter. The point is if you disagree with the ideology you face sanctions. Whatever your motive. Try it. Try disagreeing with a motive that is not religious.

You are not allowed.

lalalalyra · 14/11/2017 19:06

Tbh a maths teacher who repeatedly brings up religion in maths classes should be getting hauled over the coals imo so the whole "why should a good teacher..." argument falls flat on it's face.

He's a religious zealot who uses his trusted position in a school to preach his beliefs to children. That is not acceptable. Especially if that then leads to him singling out a child who does not conform to his ideals.

He can believe what he likes, he's entitled to do so, but he's not entitled to go into a school and push his beliefs onto the children he's supposed to be teaching maths.

Julie8008 · 14/11/2017 19:07

there ought to be statistics. Where are they?
Childhood suicides are at a 14 year high. But the reasons for them are generic like bullying, abuse, neglect, social media, exam stress etc any and all of those categories could have a trans element. I imagine its not easy to find out why a child killed themselves.

Julie8008 · 14/11/2017 19:19

what happens when those rules are changed during employment - especially if the new ones require you to declare, in effect, that black is white?

It happens all the time, in all sorts of jobs, you take it up with your employer, your union or whatever relevant body it responsible. You DONT take it out on a vulnerable child.

FFS no one asked him to declare black was white.

Datun · 14/11/2017 19:21

Julie8008

From what I understand, being trans does not spike the rate. Children in general are facing an epidemic of distress. And the most affected are minorities. Lesbians, gays, disabled people and trans.

It’s not trans-specific. And it’s disingenuous to suggest it is.

Datun · 14/11/2017 19:21

I wasn’t suggesting that this is what you are doing, by the way.