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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think suspending the teacher was extreme?

523 replies

LouBlue1507 · 14/11/2017 09:25

A maths teacher has been suspended, probably going to be sacked for accidently calling a trans child a girl whilst referring 'well done girls' to a small group of girls. He apologised for his mistake, but weeks later the parents complained.

I don't think he's helped himself by going to the press and 'This Morning' but for a class of pupils to lose a good teacher over this?

It's obvious that the majority of teachers need training on transgender, gender fluid etc. It's not fair that they are thrown in the deep end with no training what so ever. I bet most don't even know what half of it even means!

OP posts:
Datun · 14/11/2017 13:09

Following an investigation, Mr Sutcliffe has been summoned to a formal disciplinary hearing to face misconduct charges for 'misgendering'.

If they think he’s bullying a child or picking on a child, then have they said that anywhere?

Barbiesears · 14/11/2017 13:11

He's not being punished for refusing to lie. He's being punished for being petty enough to decide he can "lie" enough to use the childs new male name but that he can't lie enough to use male pronouns. He either can manage to play along with the childs new gender or not. It's the halfway thing that he's being punished for - creating hassle where there doesn't need to be any. Professionalism is part of being a teacher.

SilverSpot · 14/11/2017 13:15

@Barbiesears that only works if you believe that a name makes you male or female.

This teacher obviously doesn't subscribe to the fact that you can become a "he" by changing your name from Rachael to Rick.

Datun · 14/11/2017 13:15

Changing your name doesn’t involve a lie. You can be any name you like.

If I called myself Roger tomorrow, that would be my name. I wouldn’t be lying.

Barbiesears · 14/11/2017 13:16

You can't become a he by using the word "he" either so why not just use the word?

Datun · 14/11/2017 13:17

From what I can gather he was calling this person by their name in order to avoid lying.

Barbiesears · 14/11/2017 13:17

What I mean is, using the word he doesn't mean you believe the person is a he. It means you are using the word he. That's all. He's being punished for being unprofessional and bringing belief and religion into something that is so easy to manage.

Datun · 14/11/2017 13:18

You can't become a he by using the word "he" either so why not just use the word?

Because the word he has a meaning. It’s the pronoun used for a male.

And kind of the whole point.

Datun · 14/11/2017 13:19

He's being punished for being unprofessional and bringing belief and religion into something that is so easy to manage.

Where does it say that?

Am I reading a different article? I read that he was being punished for misgendering.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 14/11/2017 13:20

I have to interact with an individual who was born male who is now 'trans' (but without being precise with regard to what that means), but who has told me off publicly for misgendering them. This individual is overtly masculine in stereotypical terms (dresses in very overtly male ways and ways that signal male aggression) and behaves in ways that one might associate with a misogynistic man - constantly corrects women, dominates the conversation, is always right, reminds us all that as women we have 'middle clas white privilege' ....

I appreciate this is not the same as the situation in the OP but it does show the slippery slope of pronouns.

Barbiesears · 14/11/2017 13:23

Misgendering a pupil is being unprofessional and bringing his belief into the classroom when doing so is based on his religion. It's so unnecessary. He could easily use the word he and meanwhile know his own beliefs outside of the classroom. I'm sure teachers say many things in the classroom that they don't necessarily believe or agree with but they do it because they are professional and understand that they can separate the two things. He doesn't have to genuinely believe this pupil is male to be polite and professional.

robinR · 14/11/2017 13:24

"Bigoted teacher who bullies children and won't follow his LEA's guidelines suspended" didn't sound as good OP?

I'd hang him out to dry. What a dick.

Datun · 14/11/2017 13:25

Misgendering a pupil is being unprofessional and bringing his belief into the classroom when doing so is based on his religion

It’s not a belief and it’s not based on religion. It’s a fact and it’s based on biology.

HangingRock · 14/11/2017 13:27

Can i see the article you read Datun? I posted the one i read earlier

HangingRock · 14/11/2017 13:28

At 9.50. About him pushing his religious beliefs that only a man and woman can marry

Datun · 14/11/2017 13:28

You can respect somebody’s belief about themselves. What you can’t do is force people to subscribe to that belief. Or pretend to.

Barbiesears · 14/11/2017 13:28

Oh, I know all that. A woman is a woman and a man is a man. Fact. But he has made it clear that this about religion and not biological fact for him. Even if it was about fact though, how hard is it to use a word for the sake of someone's feelings in the classroom?

HangingRock · 14/11/2017 13:29

And pushing his religious beliefs in maths lessons

Datun · 14/11/2017 13:29

I googled and got the daily Mirror. I’ll read yours. Although did he not just say that that’s what it says in the Bible? Which it does.

fartyghost · 14/11/2017 13:32

Although I don't think his religious beliefs belong in the classroom, I think if it genuinely was a one off then he should be allowed back in the classroom.

This. Religious beliefs, unless handled carefully, need to be left outside the school. I believe it's OK for pupils to know that you are a Muslim/Christian/Clangers worshipper or whatever as long as it's presented as 'some people believe in Jesus/Allah/Clangers and others don't, all views are fine' kind of way.

Personal views of specific groups of people are not appropriate to share IMO whether it's connected to religion or not.

OrgyofSausages · 14/11/2017 13:33

Dear God who the hell would become a teacher these days? as well as delivering an ever expanding curriculum they now have to become experts on 'gendering' Hmm.

robinR · 14/11/2017 13:34

No they don't Orgy. They just have to follow school policy and have an ounce of compassion

It isn't hard

fartyghost · 14/11/2017 13:34

Not enough people if the teacher shortage is anything to go by. I know a few teachers and they all advise against the job.

Datun · 14/11/2017 13:37

There’s this.

the use of religious comments in maths lessons demonstrates a failure to comply with school policies.”

And if the school felt he was doing something wrong with regards to his religious belief, then that is a separate, and legitimate issue.

Datun · 14/11/2017 13:37

Except he’s been penalised for his belief, whilst also being penalised for not subscribing to somebody else’s belief.