To think suspending the teacher was extreme?

[LouBlue1507]

A maths teacher has been suspended, probably going to be sacked for accidently calling a trans child a girl whilst referring 'well done girls' to a small group of girls. He apologised for his mistake, but weeks later the parents complained.

I don't think he's helped himself by going to the press and 'This Morning' but for a class of pupils to lose a good teacher over this?

It's obvious that the majority of teachers need training on transgender, gender fluid etc. It's not fair that they are thrown in the deep end with no training what so ever. I bet most don't even know what half of it even means!

Just watched the clip, feel very sorry for the teacher. He looks very uncomfortable with the whole thing. Christian concern woman doesn't help and Philip Shocfield is shocking!

I know someone who is gender fluid, feels like a girl one day and a boy another, I wonder how the teachers keep up with it all.

We only know the context of the one example given anything else is conjecture

Well, I am sure that if it was a silly, one off mistake, then nothing will happen, will it? And he can return to work as soon as possible.

sagamartha

Well, I am sure that if it was a silly, one off mistake, then nothing will happen, will it? And he can return to work as soon as possible.

I know of to many teachers that have been forced out for very spurious reasons do to clashes with management, so he may not be able to return to work as soon as possible.

That conjecture aside. He has made a stupid error in going to the christian legal lot as I feel that he is being used to try and gain ground in a political situation.

But to labour the point there is far too much going on in the background (Trans politics, school politics, christian politics) for this to have a happy ending for him.

In one sense how people choose to present is up to them but in another are other people expected to buy into that presentation and take it literally?

It could be confusing. Maybe the teacher genuinely did get confused on that day. His punishment has been huge. I wonder what the girls and boys in his maths class are doing whole he is on enforced leave. I doubt they are really learning as they should be.

I've no idea how I would manage if a collegaue was gender fluid. I guess I'd try and nod and say all the right hings. Bu I would not think they were a man on some days and a woman on others. So in a sense
I would be being required to buy into their ideology.

www.fnlondon.com/articles/mistranslated-i-split-my-time-as-pippa-and-philip-20171002]]

I asked many pages back, what if someone presented as trans racial, they believed themselves to be a different race. Would we ask them to speak on behalf of the race they felt they were?

Boney "That conjecture aside. He has made a stupid error in going to the christian legal lot as I feel that he is being used to try and gain ground in a political situation."

I 100% agree with you. This will possibly ruin his career. It is so unfair.

fixed link
www.fnlondon.com/articles/mistranslated-i-split-my-time-as-pippa-and-philip-20171002

While I think that in this case the teacher was imposing his own personal religious views, which definitely shouldn't happen in a classroom, the whole issue of gender fluidity can be difficult in school.
Where I teach I have had a male pupil who all the staff were informed that they were now going to identify as a girl, with x name. Then later announced they were back to being a boy with y name. A year later it was announced again that they were identifying as a girl with x name (which in itself is hard enough to keep track of) but the child in question still put the male name on all their jotters, tests and folders, yet their name had been changed to female on the registers. To be perfectly honest I ended up just avoiding using either name or pronoun for them.
Another girl was announced to be now identifying as a boy with y name and the registers all changed. Then a few months later that they had decided they preferred z male name and the registers all changed again. This particular child still dressed and looked like a girl, all the way through this.
Yes teachers should support the school and the child, but its rather disingenuous to think that its easy to always remember when you see several hundred pupils a week.
Interestingly enough the other pupils generally couldn't care less and were totally accepting that Dave was now Wendy and saw it as little different to Dave Smith changing to Dave Brown when his mum remarried or Szymon changing to Simon because he liked the English version better.
(all names are made up)

Thanks boney to be clear, I know the child in question is not gender fluid but my friends child is (my friends child is not the person in the link). I just wanted to show how complex this can be.

In the situation with the person in the clip, I would almost certainly avoid using a pronoun or name as often as possible, since I would almost certainly get it wrong.

I do wonder how the biology teacher fairs when they need to teach about biological sex, about man with his penis and woman with her vagina! Is there going to be outcry!

Italiangreyhound

I agree, it is very easy to see that this is going to cause many many more issues in schools.

We have already had toilets, trips and sports.

Horrified at the thought of disadvantaged women selling their wombs to men

yes indeed Boney. The Girl Guides have said boys who identify as girls are welcome to join Girl Guides and go on tips and camp with girls and parents should not be told. Baring in mind if there is a school trip for 11, or 12, or 13 year olds (or older) we would expect boys and girls to sleep in separate rooms. The feelings of the trans child are therefore placed over the feelings of the other children. In an organisation especially for girls.

We really do need to learn to distinguish between gender and biological sex. And we really do need a wider debate. Trans people have been treated appallingly in the past, and still are in many places. But I feel we are now walking into a new dawn where some people's feelings and beliefs trump others.

We have had that in the past with religion. And as a Christian I do not want any religious group to impose their beliefs.

I ds's case, if we say his name is Theo, his football coach referred to him as Theodore for quite sometime before we realised he actually thought ds was a girl.
Even after being told ds is a boy the football coach still occassionly forgot and shouted Theodore across the pitch . There was no malice intended he just looks like a girl and many people make the same mistake.

If I was litigious or if either of us got particularly wound up about this we could have got many people fired for getting his sex and his gender wrong.

I think people in general need to be a lot less precious about stuff that in the grand scheme of things don't matter.

Even after being told ds is a boy the football coach still occassionly forgot and shouted Theodore across the pitch . There was no malice intended he just looks like a girl and many people make the same mistake

Do you think this teacher kept repeatedly making a mistake even though he DELIBERATELY said that he had decided to call this child by their first name instead of the preferred pronoun,

The situation with your DS is nothing like this situation - unlesss the sports coach had deliberately decided to call your child by a girll's name.

I think people in general need to be a lot less precious about stuff that in the grand scheme of things don't matter

That sounds a bit like saying that people should ignore the minor ways someone treats them because there are bigger things to worry about

My DD wants to be a wolf. I don't expect school to play along.
You can't make other people change their thoughts about how they see you.
If a person comes to my clinic, it's a bit irrelevant whether they think they are a girl or boy, only what bio sex they are as I still need to let the lab know for bloods purposes. We have different results from male /female.

You can't make other people change their thoughts about how they see you

But the teacher shouldn't be deliberately treating this child differently because of their personal opinions. School employees have to follow a policy of non discrimination.

I was just reading about that Pippa/Philip gender fluid fella and thinking that, despite the fact he doesn't really need names, he seems that just be saying that he is a bloke that likes wearing dresses, fair enough.

Then I read:
As part of this work, I am proud to have been recognised with many external awards such as the British LGBT Top 10 Inspirational Leaders and the recent Financial Times Top 50 Female champions of Women in Business.

He is a 'Female Champion of Women in Business'? What the fuck? He is not fucking 'female'. He is a man who on some days prefers to wear dresses to work. He was already senior in his field, probably in no small part due to the fact he is a man.

I wonder what the women he works with think of it all? No doubt they are expected to play along on his 'girl days' and praise him for being such a wonderful female role model.

Fuck that. That's made me really cross!

He wasn't treating that person differently. He was referring to them by a pronoun - just like he was the other children.

The question is are pronouns based on biological sex or gender. I think it's the former, in which case the teacher was indeed correct in using that pronoun.

I tick the correct box on the blood forms for bio sex - I don't mind whether the person thinks he's a pink flamingo, but we treat them medically as their bio sex.

He wasn't treating that person differently. He was referring to them by a pronoun - just like he was the other children

Have you RTFT?

But the teacher shouldn't be deliberately treating this child differently because of their personal opinions. School employees have to follow a policy of non discrimination

Sorry, but the child is asking to be treated differently! They are asking to be addressed differently from how they appear. The teacher is in trouble for not treating the child differently!

No wonder ppl are leaving the teaching profession in droves.

Why can he not just use the pupils' name and not "he" or "she?" That way he can stay true to his beliefs without the child's feelings being hurt.

He does use the childs preferred name instead of the wrong pronoun.

Is there any medical proof that GD will always need surgical intervention? Are there no other treatment options available for them? Is GD always a lifelong condition anyway or could a child overcome it without surgery, I wonder.

Definitely not, quite the opposite actually. 80-95% of kids grow out of 'gender dysphoria' if they are just left alone to mature naturally. However if they are shoved onto puberty blockers (which usually happens given parents are directed to the pressure group 'Mermaids' who tell them its a choice between blockers or death) then 97% of them go onto cross sex hormones. The numbers are fucking scary and I don't know why anyone is happy with this. And there will definitely be a shitload of lawsuits in the next 5-10 years from these kids who should have been protected rather than experimented on

I do wonder how the biology teacher fairs when they need to teach about biological sex, about man with his penis and woman with her vagina! Is there going to be outcry!

I genuinely can see the curriculum being changed and new books brought in that say 'some women have vaginas, some have penises'. Thats how fucking mental this whole thing is now.

He is a 'Female Champion of Women in Business'? What the fuck? He is not fucking 'female'. He is a man who on some days prefers to wear dresses to work. He was already senior in his field, probably in no small part due to the fact he is a man.

If thats made you cross...we also have a male as woman of the year, a male as first woman on the front line, and 2 males as best selling triology by a female. Theres more but those 3 come to mind immediately.

Add to that the amount of male people who have won in female sport, and Fallon Fox (male) fighting females in MMA...

Its ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.