To think suspending the teacher was extreme?

[LouBlue1507]

A maths teacher has been suspended, probably going to be sacked for accidently calling a trans child a girl whilst referring 'well done girls' to a small group of girls. He apologised for his mistake, but weeks later the parents complained.

I don't think he's helped himself by going to the press and 'This Morning' but for a class of pupils to lose a good teacher over this?

It's obvious that the majority of teachers need training on transgender, gender fluid etc. It's not fair that they are thrown in the deep end with no training what so ever. I bet most don't even know what half of it even means!

CoyoteCafe it's lovely you were kind to your students, not sure why you needed it to be in capitals.

I am also kind to anyone I meet. And I would use whatever preferences people might have.

But I think the large scale acceptance of the idea gender is somehow innate (rather than biological sex) is actually very unhelpful and probably very unkind long term to a lot of people.

"...just kindness, and treating them like actual human beings who are worthy of respect and dignity." Of course, I would expect nothing less. Maybe take a look at the trans activists and their agenda and then have a think about how this is kind. Is a society encouraging young girls to think they are really boys, really kind. I don't think so.

Dixie agree Scofield came across very badly. He looked like an idiot. I wish they had chosen someone who could argue gender critically and not bring religion in. But I guess as his teacher is a Christian it felt relevant.

Much as I feel the vast number of children identifying as trans now is being inflated by the promotion of this in so many places I would still always use the preferred names and either the preferred pronouns or avoid using sex/gendered pronouns.

this teacher...

Italiangreyhound -- he was going out of his way to draw attention to the issue. All he needed to do was address the students as "students" rather than as "boys" or "girls." It's not difficult. We really don't need to make much of anything about gender in a school setting. Doing so detracts from learning. I'm not a trans-activist and I'm not sure how helpful they are.

It really isn't that hard to avoid all the bandwagons.

CoyoteCafe I actually agree with you. In this instance. But it is part of a wider issue which is massive for our society. Because in one sense if we pretend that girls of 12 or 15 or whatever are actually boys it seems to suggest that there is something wrong with being a girl.

I agree it is best to avoid drawing attention to it. I certainly do not agree with his stance, and I expect there is more to this than we know.

But I feel very saddened that so many young girls are so unhappy being girls they think they can identify out of it. It's a much bigger issue.

I am sure you are not a trans activist. I did not mean to imply you were.

I think debate is routinely shut down, that is the bigger issue.

Sadly, some Christian groups have gone down a route on this issue, there are far more worrying aspects to this issue (like adult males being placed in women's prisons), I wish more attention were given to this than to school kids.

I also feel the child's parents were probably wrong to highlight this, I doubt this is helping the child.

It's a minefield. But I don't doubt for a second your good intentions, CoyoteCafe.

Maths is not the place for religion, RE, Bible stories etc.

In some subjects it can be useful to teach about beliefs. I love teaching the 'equality and diversity' units of BTEC courses.

Students will sometimes ask me about my beliefs in these lessons and I do tell them, but I am very clear this is my personal belief, not the school/college's belief and I am only telling them because they asked.

Some places I have taught 90% of students are Muslim and in some cases meeting an atheist is a novelty and they are curious.

ReanimatedSGB

They are defending their beliefs, in the same way that the more vocal trans lobby are.
Whether one should hold more sway than others beliefs is the bigger issue.

He may well be a "prick" but personally I am not sure that the parents of the child are any better and if being a "prick" was illegal the prisons would be in an even worse state than they are.

I suspect half of these cases of kids being mixed up like that is because of idiotic irresponsible parents, putting ideas in their child's head

You genuinely believe that a kid comes home, says "I like My Little Pony" and the parents clap their hands with glee, pop them in a frock, call them Dorothy, chuck a load of drugs down their throat and magic up a surgeon out of thin air to perform a quick snip and a tuck?

Christians are as much of a varied group of people as any other category. Some people who hold Christian beliefs are concerned with being kind to others, helping the poor, being fair in their dealings, along with observing the specific rituals and festivals of Christianity, and good luck to them. Some Christians (of the variety of the woman defending the teacher) are not interested in 'defending their beliefs'. What they are demanding is the right to mistreat other people, to harass them, to deny them goods and services, and to be able to insult them with impunity. And any request that they treat non-Christians with kindness and courtesy in spaces that are not exclusively Christian (like most workplaces and many schools) rather than pestering them is portrayed as 'persecution'.

And, yes, there are some trans activists who are also incapable of accepting that not everything is about them, and who demand the 'right' to bully others. But there is a fuck of a lot of moral panic, bigotry and outright stupidity around the whole debate, which helps no one.

I also feel the child's parents were probably wrong to highlight this, I doubt this is helping the child
The parents haven't highlighted a thing, its been the preacher all over the TV and newspapers, spouting his religion and how oppressed he is.

I can't believe how many people are so patronising about trans people. Like they have any idea what is going on with anyone who has made the complex and life changing decision to let people know they are trans.

People used to be like this about gay people.

Ilovelampandchair:
If so, can you explain why so many gay people find trans ideology homophobic?

People used to be like this about gay people.

If you support homosexual rights, you can’t support transgender rights.

There are loads of lesbians on mumsnet, particularly on the feminist board. And they are being erased by the trans ideology.

According to which, sex is socially constructed. Your sex is determined by your brain. Therefore your material body is immaterial to your sexual orientation.

Hence lesbians being relentlessly persecuted to sleep with men identifying as women (and therefore lesbians). Hence terms like lady dick and the penis is a female organ.

Lesbians are called transphobic and bigoted for refusing to sleep with someone with a penis.

See Riley J Dennis, ‘are your preferences transphobic’.

Watch him make absolute mincemeat of lesbians sexual orientation. And, of course, by extension anyone’s sexual orientation, heterosexual or homosexual.

The parents haven't highlighted a thing

Absolutely. It's the teacher and his pals who are sounding off to the media.

I will add that I don't believe for a minute that this was a one-off incident. If a teacher accidentally misgenders a child you have a quick word, teacher apologises, it's all over. We all make mistakes. We all have a slip of the tongue now and then (usually in our house it's mixing up DS with the dog) but we rectify those mistakes and move on. For this teacher to have been suspended he must have done a lot more than misgendered a pupil one single time.

All my lesbian friends so far have been very, VERY supportive of trans people. I often ask them as I read so much rubbish on mumsnet about lesbians being 'relentlessly persecuted to sleep with men identifying as women'. You are talking about a subset of trans people who are extreme. So don't go tarring all trans people with that ugly brush.

You are talking about a subset of trans people who are extreme.

I agree. Except they’re not a subset.

You are talking about a subset of trans people who are extreme. So don't go tarring all trans people with that ugly brush

Absolutely.

I know several lesbians with trans kids, they don't seem to have a problem.

The whole thing is utterly insane!!!!!

Arghhhhh!!!!!!

You cannot change your sex. Young people who believe themselves to be something other than the sex they were "assigned" at birth need to be corrected by their parents and not coddled. A boy who thinks he's really a girl because he likes Barbie dolls need to be told he is still a boy, just one who likes Barbie dolls. And that's fine. Like what you like, love who you love, but your sex is not up for discussion.

Awful people are generally only a section of any group. Most people are fairly decent.

But unfortunately, it is those we have to guard against. Most people aren’t burglars, but we still lock the house.

Most men aren’t rapists, but we still don’t get into unlicensed taxis.

Violent transactivists who are just as trans as anyone else, according to Stonewall, have managed to shutdown Mitchfest. A lesbian only festival that has been going annually for forty years. In one year of concentrated persecution.

Most people understand there are two types of transwomen. And if you know transsexuals, you won’t understand transactivists.

And none of this would matter, if wasn’t trans-activists who are pushing an agenda that is unacceptable.

Of course transsexuals don’t claim they are biological women. They’re not interested in that rhetoric. They are, therefore, not the problem.

I completely agree, it is tarring everyone with the same brush. But until you can tell one from the other, what is the solution?

The whole thing is utterly insane!!!!!

Arghhhhh!!!!!!

I do love a reasoned response.

Well Datun, you argument for discriminating against trans people is exactly what we should all be fighting hard against.

Ilovelampandchair

How am I arguing against discrimination towards trans-people?

I want trans people to have the right to work, to housing, to treatment. Every human right.

What I disagree with, profoundly, is giving men who identify as women, women’s rights.

Women’s rights are based on their sex. Maternity rights, access to abortion, access to sanpro. The right to be housed in the female estate without the presence of a male inmate. The right to sex segregated facilities, in general. The right to compete in sport, segregated by sex.

You can’t ignore the fact that women require sex segregation because of the inherent power dynamic between men and women.

If men stopped committing 98% of sexually violent crime, no one would care, we could all change together.

If women were suddenly able to run as fast as, jump as high as, and lift as heavy a weight as men, then we could all compete together.

Men do not require women’s rights. It’s ludicrous to suggest they do. You cannot be included in something that doesn’t apply to you.

I can't believe how many people are so patronising about trans people. Like they have any idea what is going on with anyone who has made the complex and life changing decision to let people know they are trans.

Do you really think it is complex and life changing to come into school and say you are now a boy and demand all teachers use your new name and call you either 'he' or some gender neutral pronoun? Especially if your best friend in your class is also doing it at the exact same time? It is quite easyfor a teacher to slip up although in this case it sounds deliberate.

Italiangreyhound -- he was going out of his way to draw attention to the issue. All he needed to do was address the students as "students" rather than as "boys" or "girls."

I think he was addressing a small group, so no actual boys in it, so very easy mistake to make. Well done, students would sound rather odd in those circumstances. 'Well done girls, and boy' would seem to draw even more attention!

If he can't leave his beliefs at the door then he should not be teaching.

Does that apply to other religious beliefs too? .