To not take DD on holiday

[Strawberryshortcake40]

Have posted about DD before. She is unwell with an eating disorder, it has been over two years now. Life is pretty hellish.

A couple of months ago she seemed to be making progress, it was thought it would be good to give her something to aim for. So a holiday was booked for her, her younger sister and me.

Last month she started getting very manipulative about it all. Saying what her DS could do/not do on holiday, how she wasn't going to keep to our plans etc. Sure enough she had lost weight (her behaviour is a sign). I told her if she lost more weight she could not go. She rallied slightly. Her therapist said if she lost more weight she shouldn't go.

Well with a week to go, she's lost almost a kg in a week. So now WTF do I do? She really isn't well enough to go but is insistent I will "give in and take her".

Her little sister will be devastated not to go away and frankly she needs a break, she cries most evenings before bed at how life is here and it's soul destroying to see how her childhood is being wrecked by this.

But I feel v v sad at the thought of not taking DD who this was all for in the first place, but if I take her it will literally be a whole week of us being dictated to by her illness.

AIBU to not take her??

Yep, money only goes so far. When I have a DD saying "I'm trying to gain weight mum and I really fancy this for a snack" well yes I will get it. Usually I go without nice things, sometimes dinner if things are that tight. Youngest DD may have to wait a few days to get the biscuits she likes best (there will still be biscuits though!). And anorexia never chooses a food that everyone likes, all part of the illness....

Read the books. Done it all. She recovered for five months physically, mentally she never got better. It's a longer road than I thought it would be.

I think you should take DD2 on her own. Family experience of anorexia here. Your DD2 needs to know she is worthy of attention without an ED and a week or a break for her would probably do a huge amount of good. I think you should look at this only from the view of which decision would be better for her, as it’s much harder to know which would be better for DD1, given how anorexia screws up normal mental processes. She might feel more inclined to lose if left because she’s so strong she can lose a holiday, or less inclined because she will have met a limit on how much her ED can control you all. There’s no way to know. But it seems if she does go you and DD2 will have a horrible time.

I'm no expert but it sounds to me like there is a whole lot of (normal) teenage selfishness and manipulation going on here, except your DD1 knows how worried you are about her health because of her ED, so she knows she can get anything she wants, at the expense of her poor sister.

You are in a horrible situation and I truly feel for you. ( My DD also has complex MH problems.)
I realise that we only get bits of information on your complex situation so I apologise if I've misinterpreted things.
The regime that dangermouseisace describes is very detailed and precise. Each small step was identified, target set and reward agreed, so everyone knew where they stood. It is a system that when working could build up to bigger and bigger rewards with greater challenges to be met.
From your OP, it doesn't sound as if there has been this sort of small step approach in place. You say " it was thought it would be good to give her something to aim for". I may have got it wrong, but that sounds to me as if this was a new approach. It was a massive reward so the stakes are massively high, which puts immense pressure on your DD. I'm not saying a reward system is wrong per se (I'm not qualified) but it does sound as if there may have been important steps that needed to be in place before it was safe to use such a high value reward.
Is it possible that your DD saw the holiday as the reward for doing well previously? Is it possible that from her point of view this reward is now being withdrawn for subsequent behaviour which seems unfair? If the target and expecations were too vague, it becomes open to interpretation. The fact that you are having this dilemma indicates that it wasn't clear. It needed to be black and white.

So I'm afraid I don't think it's as simple as "You have to stick to your guns" because I'm not sure either you or DD knew exactly what the rules were at the start of the process.

"I'm trying to gain weight mum and I really fancy this for a snack"

OMG, she is playing you. She is deliberately taking things away from her DSis, and it's all part of her trying to have control of everything.

Please, please, please don't continue to behave like this towards your younger DD. Why the hell should she lose so much???!!!

That’s tough OP. My DDs consultant explained that sometimes it’s necessary to get to 110% weight to height before real recovery starts. My DD will not comply but she’s recovered sufficiently to have a happy and fulfilled life - we just have to remain super vigilant that she ideas to drop weight as ED is quick to return if she does. My concern is what the hell happens when she goes to uni and I’m not there feeding her.

I think that there is no question that you and youngest DD must go - it’s just whether or not you take your other DD and the potential damage it could do if you leave her behind. You are damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

She was told when I booked the holiday that she needed to stay healthy for it. She prefers that term to "keeping your weight stable". it was made clear to her every week. It wasn't a treat, merely a step along the road to recovery. Tbh a small dip I could have accepted, we have always said maintenance is 200g up or down (although not down every week). But this is a big drop in a week.

Crikey. I have absolutely no idea what would be for the best (although my head is telling me you should take your younger daughter only) but I think you’re coping amazingly. I guess it doesn’t always feel like that though.

You’re doing the very best you can for your daughters, honestly. We only have so many weapons in our arsenal and it sounds like you’re using every single one of them to the bst of your ability.

Nobody can know what’s going to be for the best There’s no silver bullet. You’re just going to have to go with what you think is best for everybody.

Hats off Op

We only ever got her to 98% at her "recovery". She was 88% last week so less this week. I'm well aware she needs to hit over 100 and stay there for some months, I can't see that happening.

I am failing them both. That's the saddest thing. She has the trump card as she has such an awful illness. But youngest DD could also get it, I have missed so much time with her because of all of this. There aren't enough hours in the day :(

I think you should probably go with your youngest on two conditions

1 that your older dd is not likely to fall so low in weight during that time that she requires emergency admission/sectioning. Or that you think she will lose it completely and put herself or others at further risk.

2 that she understands it is not a punishment and that you are sympathetic that unfortunately she is not well enough to go but that you and other dd also need a break. The thing about your older dd is that her illness won't give her a break anyway, whether she goes or not.

I could be cynical and wonder if this sudden big drop so close to going is about it being so close to the holiday it would be very difficult for you to follow through.

From your descriptions, if you take her she will be ill enough to ensure no one enjoys themselves and work on losing more weight so when there she stays or goes will look much the same. It won't look much the same to poor dd2 or you though. You can't help dd1 much at all in seven days whatever you do. Those same seven days could help a great deal for you and dd2.

So sorry OP, I really don't know what is for the best. You are doing your best though, and that is all you can do, you aren't failing them.

I think you should take the advice of the therapist. Take your younger DD and spend some quality time with her - she is very much a victim too in all this and needs 'mum time' just as much as her sister does. It is not fair that her elder sister gets all the attention. It is time you balanced the situation. Your 15 year old was told the rules and what was expected before the holiday - letting her still come with you would
be sending out all the wrong messages. I have a DD with a mental illness and it's horrible and very upsetting for her and the rest of the family and yes it's not her fault - but it isn't your younger DD's fault either. It would be very unfair on your younger DD to take her older sister and be spending the whole time walking on eggshells. That is no holiday for any of you! Go on your holiday with younger DD and leave the older one at home.

Bucketsandspoons - yep I think that too. She had gained 200 last week so I'm thinking she waited till now to pull out the big guns. And now it's my move, and I have no idea what to do.

It won’t happen for my DD either OP but we are “lucky” in that disordered behaviour virtually disappears around 95% where we are now but it’s too finely balanced. If she’s physically ill or stressed, she’ll drop a few pounds and back come the ED symptoms if she doesn’t regain immediately.

Therapists will say that it’s all about finding what motivates them - but I think the desire to get well and tell AN to fuck off has to come from within. It’s a vicious circle as to get that clarity of thought - they need to hit a certain weight.

Take dd2 for a break.
You may feel guilty either way but dd2 needs a break and so do you.
Therapist sanctions you going
So go .

You’re not failing them Strawberry you’re doing your absolute best against an insidious illness and with what sounds like not nearly enough help and support.

I really think that even mentally this break will do you good and if DD gets any worse it won’t be the going or not going that causes that. If that’s the route she goes this could well be the excuse but you know that if it wasn’t this it would be something else. It’s all about the illness and I’d worry that if she can make you back down over something big like this, it might get even more difficult to enforce the smaller rules that are in place to help her get better.

You absolutely are not failing them OP. You got her to 98% and you’ll get back there again and beyond. I have similar feelings of guilt. I worry about my youngest too. Siblings of anorexics are 11 times more likely to develop the disease - another reason to take her away on this holiday.

God, what a nightmare, you poor thing

Haven't read every post but I feel so sad for your DD2. She so deserves a proper holiday, with you, & without her sister manipulating everything.

Assuming there's somebody you can safely leave DD1 with I think you should do that & take DD2 (but I can also imagine your guilt at leaving her.)

Agree with MustBeMad. She is testing you, you know that. I would take her as I couldn't let her miss a Disney holiday (Florida?) due to her mental health issues. She'll probably lose even more weight while with her Dad if he's not clued up on her anorexia and to punish you. I would also not enjoy the holiday as I would be constantly worrying about her.

I would not entertain any arguments about where to eat or what ride to go on. You are in control and you should make that clear before you go and tell her she will on the next plane home if any nastiness to her sister. You never know, in an environment like that she may get caught up in it and lose focus on her anorexia for a while.

Also I don't think losing a holiday should ever have been a sanction.

Based on what you have said, and on the basis that your daughter is not going to be alone, I would absolutely go with your younger daughter if it is feasible. You need a break too, your younger daughter has been looking forward to it and needs time to just need a child and have that one-to-one time (which I imagine can be difficult when your elder daughter is struggling like this), and it's so bloody difficult as a loved one to never get any respite.

I would also say this based on my experience: I developed anorexia as an adult (and am now aiming for full recovery - I promise it is possible), but while your daughter is clearly struggling and so entrenched in her eating disorder, it wouldn't be enjoyable for her either. It might be her dream holiday, but sometimes we hang on to the thought that a holiday/change of scene/certain event will make it stop for a bit. But you can't switch anorexia/eating disorders off, even for a day (as I am sure you have much awareness of), and coping with a holiday (and therefore uncertainty with food, changes of meal timings or unknown calories, extra walking, or the other things your daughter may struggle with) can be a major stressor in itself when struggling with an eating disorder.

She won't like it at the time. She might be trying to prove her control, or even have convinced herself that she's fine to go, that it will make everything better and won't affect her there, that you'll give in and let her go (and eating disorders do not like knowing that there is somebody who will stand up to them and not let them 'get away with it'). But in hindsight I think she will understand (even if it is not pleasant for a while).

The other important thing: Don't see it as a 'punishment'. It might seem like it (to you and to her), but it's not. It's not 'You can't go because you lost weight' as such. It is 'Your illness is making you so unwell [mentally or physically] that it wouldn't be a good idea at the moment. When you are well enough we will be able to go on holiday/etc.' (If you ever use Around The Dinner Table - I am an ED sufferer so only lurk and read, but I would really recommend it to any carer if not - the difference between 'Life stops until you eat' and 'Life starts when you eat', I guess).

Sorry this is so long. But take care, and remember one day she WILL thank you. It's a horrible illness, and as a carer/parent I can only imagine the frustration and exhaustion. But remember you need care too.

But she knows I wouldn't put her on a plane? And just like at home, when she's screaming, hitting, refusing to eat, leave the house (room) etc what can I do? I can see a lot of room service meals and brief time at the pool for youngest DD while we don't actually do anything.

And just to be clear both DDs have been to Disney before, so it's not a big stress for her. In fact she has always termed it "her happy place" and somewhere she's dreamt of going back to. I really did think making that happen would be something lovely for her.