To not take DD on holiday

[Strawberryshortcake40]

Have posted about DD before. She is unwell with an eating disorder, it has been over two years now. Life is pretty hellish.

A couple of months ago she seemed to be making progress, it was thought it would be good to give her something to aim for. So a holiday was booked for her, her younger sister and me.

Last month she started getting very manipulative about it all. Saying what her DS could do/not do on holiday, how she wasn't going to keep to our plans etc. Sure enough she had lost weight (her behaviour is a sign). I told her if she lost more weight she could not go. She rallied slightly. Her therapist said if she lost more weight she shouldn't go.

Well with a week to go, she's lost almost a kg in a week. So now WTF do I do? She really isn't well enough to go but is insistent I will "give in and take her".

Her little sister will be devastated not to go away and frankly she needs a break, she cries most evenings before bed at how life is here and it's soul destroying to see how her childhood is being wrecked by this.

But I feel v v sad at the thought of not taking DD who this was all for in the first place, but if I take her it will literally be a whole week of us being dictated to by her illness.

AIBU to not take her??

I would be hesitant to engage with any therapist willing to break your child’s confidentiality and to give you advice like this.

Effectively dd1 has you and dd2 over a barrel and is well aware of it, and has quite possibly to some extent done this on purpose.

If your options are her having you even further over a barrel on holiday where she has all sorts of avenues to ensure you and dd2 are as limited and miserable as possible and you can do nothing about it, then the less damaging option for all is for dd2 to lose her trip. At least she will be able to escape from dd1 by going to school for some hours a day. How you manage the fall out from this - and ensure that dd1 gains the minimum possible reward from seeing AN control everyone including losing all this money for the family and depriving her sister of this - I can't begin to know. I hope the therapists can give you some help and guidance.

I am so sorry you are in this ghastly situation. The resignation in your post when you say you have pretty much accepted dd2 will lose her health through this at all is heartbreaking.

I'm actually gutted for your DD2, honestly I am. I know you're in a shockingly difficult position and you're being let down left right and centre, but once again it's your DD2 who takes the brunt of it (and you of course) and loses out.

I know you've said that CAMHS have lost the plot decided that your ex would be better than respite care, but is there any chance you could get a private carer in to look after her while you go? Or is that well out of your reach in terms of money? Or are you in an area where there is a carers' support group, who might be able to offer more advice/help?

I'm laughing at camhs losing the plot. That is exactly my thoughts!

Yes I thought respite care would be available but it seems camhs think her dad is a better solution.

If Camhs think her dad is a better option, leave her with her dad.

Why do you keep making excuses to get out of taking DD2 to Disneyland? That may not be your intention, but that is how you are coming across. It seems like your mind is up and you are just going to cancel the trip of a lifetime because DD1 cannot go. That kind of behaviour may be damaging for DD2.

I've had experience with my ds and friend with her DS withMH difficulties. The boys both have asd.

We've both been told by Camhs that once they learn to manipulate situations it's harder to break and actually ingrains the behaviour more and can encourage negative behaviours as they get positive reinforcement.

You need to go. Your younger DD needs to go. DD1 isn't well enough to go.

You are all equal and have a right to have your needs met. I'm sure over the years yours and DD2's needs have been ignored for DD1. This time the tables have to be turned.

i'm a bit worried that DD1 is being painted as a villain here. Yes, she's being manipulative but i'm pretty sure it's not deliberate. She's very confused, disappointed , feeling guilty and experiencing a whole host of other conflicting emotions that she can't even begin to understand let alone control.

Yes of course DD2 needs help and a support group for her as a pp suggested, is a great idea as well as another trip to look forward to, but we mustn't forget that DD1 is in the grip of something out of her control. I think the therapist may well have been right and that it could have been catastrophic as it was "her trip". That's not to say that DD2 isn't important. Of course she is, but there is a real lack of feeling for DD1 here as if she is being manipulative deliberately.

I don't think you have any chance of an insurance payout because it's a pre-existing condition and her % is above in-patient level.
Plus, you don't want your younger girl to miss out.

There is no family option to leave her behind, her father is not suitable - especially when she's relapsing.

I really feel for you.

There are 2 options I'd suggest.

1. Use either/both of your therapists to help you get her a fast admission into a private ED clinic for a week. Beg, borrow, steal, extract from XH, credit card the cost. I don't know how quick that would be to arrange. I think if you leave her for a week, that would be a safe place.

1. Bring her with you, and enforce strict rules. When my SD was suffering with AN (thankfully nothing like your situation) all exercise was based on fuel. So - oldest girl can come to the rides, if she has fuelled it - the agreed breakfast. If she doesn't eat the mid morning snack, she has to wait on the park. If she doesn't eat lunch, you walk her back to her hotel room. Then - crucially - you go out again. You ignore any comments about what the younger one can and can't do.

If she has a meltdown over rules being enforced, you leave her. If you tell me this isn't safe (rather than very upsetting for you) then obviously this suggestion won't work.

Even though your youngest is so young and shouldn't have to take responsibility, given her experience already I would be honest with her. Ask what she wants to do.

It is better to write off this money than have the trip from hell. Better to plan a trip for just the younger one in the future with a definite plan for the older one not to come. Younger one might prefer to wait for that, than go through a nightmare trip now.

Is oldest in school?
If so, I'd consider taking the weekdays during the missed holiday to spend with younger - at home, out on day trips, maybe one night away if you can get your older one elsewhere for one night. One night with your parents may mean unsupervised (non) eating, but I think it's a risk that's worth it for a night alone for your younger girl. She may prefer not to go away, than to go under stressful conditions.

Any chance of the doctor being on your side with regard to the insurance if it is being advised to cancel by a therapist?

One more thing... I know this is easy for me to say, but make your decision now.

There isn't a good decision here, so don't be afraid of choosing the wrong one. At this stage, you just need to take it.

Being in a state of flux is going to add stress to you ALL.

If you're taking oldest girl, then whether you tell her it's because you trust her and she still deserves it, or whether you tell her you're over a barrel and next time it's weight based you will have an alternative set up - tell her. Right now she has another week (?) of the AN controlling everything, you have the uncertainty...

Stop worrying about the right decision, make a decision, and live with that.

You said AN might "win". You've been in this battle a long time. You know you can take a hit, but not go down.

Any chance to bring a parent with you so if she doesn't eat breakfast and is refused to go to the theme park, you have someone to sit with her? (I know they'll be on the receiving end of it but a parent might be prepared to. Even if they share it with you, the younger one will get some time with you alone)

I haven't read all the posts but many and what an awful and difficult situation to be in 🙁 Have the professionals looked into histrionic/narcissistic personality disorder? Of course there is anorexia there but I also feel there is a personality disorder driving some of her decisions: the particular brands of food, items, telling everyone about her illness, everything to bed focused on her despite others suffering.... It may be an avenue to pursue. Sadly whether you go on the holiday or not it's going to affect both daughters... Think to yourself what can you live with best after the decision has been made. Almost make the decision in your head and see what it feels like... Do the same with the opposite decision... See which one you can deal with better... It may be neither and cancel it or reschedule for 2/3 weeks later etc... Just some ideas. I really hope you all get some help and support that you need. Sending lots of hugs your way xxx

Taking both dd on your own for major trip with one in throes of severe mental.illness would never work. (Went on holidays with now exp and his mental illness after his therapist advised a holiday might be nice...it was hell)
If you were to book again you would need to take another adult with you in case.

On this occasion take therapists advice. If camhs say leave with dad then do so. Get it in writing. He can call crisis team if needed. I think tho you risk dd1 creating a crisis or gettting into a crisis due to.the illness so you end up cutting your holiday short... if she gets admitted etc would you rush back ? Or stick.to.your holiday ? Would you leave her dad to deal.wirh the fall out til you got back ?

You and dd2 need a break.. are you ok with leaving whoever is behind to handle any potential.crisis situation with dd1?
Maybe you should.

I have taken both DDs away before when she was more physically ill (early summer) (sun holiday on advice of therapist). Also last year when she was physically recovered but mentally v frail. I had no need of another adult then. And in fact wouldn't have one who could go with us! Both of those trips were a similar thing, steps to recovery, having good times etc. Even though this is different it was chosen as very much the holiday DD used to love in the hope it would trigger some kind of positivity

And both those trips we unfortunately took anorexia along with us. Which means DD2s memories of them are tainted.

Don't take her.

I had anorexia as a 19 year old and your DD's situation sounds so similar. A holiday is full of strange, foreign food and is NOT a good place for an anorexic.

I almost got hospitalised when I came back from a family holiday aged 19 as it pushed me over the edge.

This one sadly is unlikely to prove any different . If you are going to a theme park might be worth contacting them in advance in case they can offer "skip the line" passes to enable your dd2 to get rides in before dd1 has had enough.

Also for you.

I can't imagine how hard it is for you. Just remember she is not her eating disorder, but her eating disorder manipulates her. Horrible things will be said, it will be hell for you, but there is a road to recovery eventually.

Like I said, I had anorexia and now I live a normal, happy life. It's actually the anniversary of my originsl diagnosis today, so I've been feeling a little sensitive all day as it still brings back horrid memories. I remember that time of my life as a blur. I have no memories aside from ones with food. It's all very strange.

I'm sorry you were so ill Crockface. OP mentions during the thread that it's Disney and they've been before, so I think strange, foreign food less of an issue.

Yes DD has been 7 times before (but not for a few years) so it's not new to her. And isn't worried about the food type, is the quantity

Ellisandra

Thank you. The main thing is I'm fine now, but it is a horrible illness. And must be terrible for any mother to watch their child go through.

I haven't read that far yet, so strange food is less of an issue but again can still be hard.

For example, I went to the same holiday place every year and was very familiar with the food. But the lack of nutrition info and not seeing exactly how the food was preparedness meant I couldn't even consider having it. It varies individually, but OP's daughter may still struggle. Obviously OP will know and her daughters supporting team.

OP, can you guarantee she will eat enough to not lose more weight?

I'm not sure how her physical condition is, but if she's already lost a kg in a week then you don't want her slipping back further.

Will try and catch up with the rest of the thread!

You sound like a good mother OP though, you're clearly trying really hard to cope with her eating disorder. It's hard on the whole family!

OP please take your younger daughter. I think there’s more than anorexia at play here. You’re an amazing mother but you’ve blurred the boundaries. I think it’s a case of tough love now for the eldest and nurturing the youngest by giving her this much needed break.

Yes the not knowing calories in things is an issue for her. Unfortunately most menus in the states have that info, making it easy for her to find the lowest thing. Or choose the restaurant with the lowest cal items.

But I understand how that makes her feel better to know that.

It's tough, isn't it?
We think took my recovering SD to France, and said catered, except lunch.
Every restaurant had salad, and a chicken breast type meal.
So she would ask for salad and to have a chicken breast too.
No problem.
Except one place, who looked at her like she was crazy, made her say it twice, said they'd have to check... made such a song and dance about it that she was almost in tears.
TBH it would have made me uncomfortable!
But she just couldn't cope with so much focus on what she'd ordered
Fortunately she rallied, and chicken with salad is a bit of a family joke now!

I have read the full thread.

You absolutely have to take DD2. All your focus is on DD1 and not on her. You have one child with mental health problems so you have to do what you can to protect the other from them.

If Cahms say leave her with her dad then do that. give him all the info he needs and let HIM take on some of the responsibility. he ducks out of it because he knows you will always pick up the pieces for him and you need to stop enabling him and make him realise what an absolute shit storm yours and dd2's life is at the moment.

if he doesn't want DD1 then make him pay for private respite care. No options. he has to step up and sort this.

write down exactly what you want to say to DD1. its not that you don't trust her, you don't trust her "friend" the illness. and if she wont confront her friend and stop this then you will because you are at the end of your tether now. Tell her you are going, you have sorted out provision for her whilst you are gone and that's it. no further discussion. no pleading or begging or any other shit.

then go. keep in contact with her as you normally would but give yourself and DD2 some space.

You have to do this. because if you don't you are going to collapse with the stress of it all, either mentally or physically. then others will have to pick up the pieces and you wont be able to organise it to happen. so do it now whilst you can organise things.

whilst you are away, start drawing up the kind of contract others have suggested. you need to put her daily life on a really controlled footing as they would if she was in hospital. no ifs no buts no more shit.

why does she have 2 therapists? I am guessing this is down to DD1 again not liking one of them. if so, put a stop to this as well.

don't underestimate how miserable she is making life for DD2. you are only seeing whats on the surface not what she will be saying to her when you aren't there or not listening.

Having a mental illness does not give her a licence to behave like this.

I will be brutally honest, if you don't go on this holiday and make good on the conditions that you laid down, then you are in for a whole pile of it because her illness has won and it has proved to her that her friend is stronger and more dominant than you.

really for the good of your health your DD2's health and giving your DD1 a chance to improve, you have to go.

I hope that in reading what others with ED have said you draw some strength to take this step. I only wish you had the support that you need and deserve because honestly no one would want to be in your shoes. you must be one hell of a person to have coped for this long. you deserve that break.