To not take DD on holiday

[Strawberryshortcake40]

Have posted about DD before. She is unwell with an eating disorder, it has been over two years now. Life is pretty hellish.

A couple of months ago she seemed to be making progress, it was thought it would be good to give her something to aim for. So a holiday was booked for her, her younger sister and me.

Last month she started getting very manipulative about it all. Saying what her DS could do/not do on holiday, how she wasn't going to keep to our plans etc. Sure enough she had lost weight (her behaviour is a sign). I told her if she lost more weight she could not go. She rallied slightly. Her therapist said if she lost more weight she shouldn't go.

Well with a week to go, she's lost almost a kg in a week. So now WTF do I do? She really isn't well enough to go but is insistent I will "give in and take her".

Her little sister will be devastated not to go away and frankly she needs a break, she cries most evenings before bed at how life is here and it's soul destroying to see how her childhood is being wrecked by this.

But I feel v v sad at the thought of not taking DD who this was all for in the first place, but if I take her it will literally be a whole week of us being dictated to by her illness.

AIBU to not take her??

darthmaiden speaks marvellous sense.

don't take dd1, take dd2 and really have a good time. you both need that break. dd1 is controlling the entire family and her illness is a positive atm by giving her that control. you have made the conditions of the holiday very clear, and she's pushing your boundaries, convinced she has the upper hand.

you must stick to your guns. i would investigate the respite care option since your ex is such an arse.

God OP - what a horrible situation!

My own 2cents - I'd go without DD1. Because; she will not get better inn that week, she may get worse.

Dd2 will def get better in that week - without her sister
YOU will def get better in that week - without DD1.

It's hard, it really is, but dd1 may or may not benefit (and prob wont) , whereas everyone else will.

And you are drawing a line in the sand; boundaries are necessary for a 15yo, whatever their MH. Long run - it will help.

OP - what is stopping you from moving forward and declaring your position today?

OP this sounds really hard

My perspective FWIW, is that your DD isn’t well enough to go on holiday, as evidenced by her weight loss. She needs to be looked after. If you can arrange this safely, then I would still take her sister away.

Your messages are simple. Younger sister gets her holiday as promised and as deserved.

Older sister isn’t well enough to go away at the moment. She gets looked after at home.

I mentioned this last night I wonder if you missed it OP? But I also see now I didn't provide a link:

www.anorexiabulimiacare.org.uk

I feel for you, I really do. ED is so much about control and boundaries and rules are part of the treatment. You set a bar and she’s missed it so now there are consequences. I would leave her half the week with Dad and half the week with grandparents. Sit her down and explain she knew what was expected and didn’t achieve it, she can control her own actions but she can’t control yours and just leave it at that. It will do your youngest the world of good to have a week with her Mum, probably more good then your eldest.

Leave her and go. Your younger daughter needs a break and she needs to understand that she cannot control everything.
All the best

If she was an inpatient for treatment boundaries would be a huge part of her treatment. I know of a few centres where they lock toilet doors during meal times & for a time afterwards, where there is imposed 'down time' for an hour after meals to prevent excessive exercise...that is the professionals. So by laying down your boundaries & then sticking with the consequences you are not doing her any adverse harm, you are showing her that she has to work with you. Boundaries & consequences help try & break the control cycle

How hard. I think I'd go and leave her with her Dad. You and your younger daughter desperately need a break and your older daughter needs a boundary enforcing. ED are horrible, but I'm not sure that giving in to her every manipulation is the right way. I understand the expensive snacks, but a load of new clothes and a backpack for her when your younger daughter doesn't get her favourite biscuits? That's not healthy for anyone.

I’m no expert on any of this OP so I know you’re not really here for my opinion. I just wanted to chime in to say that I think you’re a wonderful mum, and I’m heartbroken at what this illness is doing to your family.
For what it’s worth I agree that you should go with your DD2 and leave DD1 with her father. I can’t imagine a harder decision though, and I admire you completely whatever you do

Just wanted to send some support. Anorexia is vile. I grew up in the shadow of my sister's illness - everything was done around her wants and needs, and actually she says now that what she was crying out for was containment - loving boundaries, basically.

You've not failed your daughters. You're a flipping hero, by the sound off it you're going without for both of them and always striving to meet their needs. And doing this alone must be beyond hard. I especially don't think you're failing them by standing by a boundary that will benefit both of them in the long run.

Good luck and remember you're doing a great job.

She has broken the conditions for going on the trip, I would leave her if she was not alone and take youngest for a break from it all. Otherwise I would cancel the whole trip if there was no one to look after her. Life is hard and tough love is sometimes needed. Manipulations is not to be rewarded nor broken agreements. That doesn't mean that you don't show her love and care, but at the end of the day it's not all about her, the youngest needs something as well and taking her on this trip to recharge batteries and get a break from the situation is not to be sniffed at.

Like most pp I think you should just go with your younger daughter. I haven't been in her shoes per se but I have spent the last 20 years, from when I was about 12, living in the shadow of my highly manipulative sister. My mother is scared of her, so, any time there's a choice to be made between the two of us it's me who loses out, and is made to feel like shit. At least I spent my childhood free of this (my sister changed when she hit her 20s, and decided the world owed her a favour).

I would think carefully about how you'll deal with contact with your elder DD whilst you're away. The manipulation and guilt trips won't stop, and you need to be prepared. I remember one occasion on which my mother stood up to my sister, which resulted in my sister storming off. It should have been a good day, but my mother was so wound up about having upset her that she was constantly trying to get in touch with her and worrying when she wouldn't answer the phone to her. So although my sister wasn't with us the whole day was still spent trying to appease her from afar. Don't let your elder DD be the focus of your holiday, even though she isn't there. Your younger lass needs your attention.

No expert here but if you do leave her behind can you tell her that you cannot take "her friend", and that since the illness is powerful at the moment, you cannot take her; tell her that you love her and wanted to take her, but that the holiday which was a fresh start for the three of you, will not work if there are 4 of you there; that when she wants to go away with you, you can always book another holiday for you and her, but that it will only be for you to have quality time together without her illness being in charge; suggest to her that if she can start to be in control of her life, of her weight gain, of her behaviour, then you will support her all the way? HTH

You must take dd2, reading your posts she sounds very much like she could do with a break with you away from the illness.

It must be so hard re dd1, when it was put to her that she would have to be healthy to go what were you thinking in terms of back up you’d be happy with if she wasn’t?

OP, I really think you need to go with just your younger DD, and make a huge effort to focus on her as completely as you can while you're away. If you manage this, she will remember it and the time you gave her, for the rest of her life.

Whatever other awful times you may have as a family while your elder DD is ill, you will have equipped your younger DD with more resilience and security. She sounds like an absolute gem, but she really really needs to have that recognised and bolstered.

You have two precious children. It's ok to shift focus onto the younger one for one holiday. It's more than ok, I think it'll mean more to her than you'll ever know.

My older sister was controlling and manipulative. No eating disorder, but with the benefit of hindsight I can see she was mentally prepared well, although at the time I just thought she was a bitch. She was vile to me, eg she'd just look at me and out of nowhere say with disgust "you're so ugly." She did it until I believed her. She ruled the roost, would shout and scream to get her own way. My mum was afraid of her. She got what she wanted to try and keep her calm.

I was 5 years younger, and I was the good kid who just got on with stuff. My parents didn't mean it but I was definitely second fiddle.

When I was 13 I was sexually abused on holiday over a period of two weeks. I never told my parents because I didn't want any more drama for my mum.

When I was 17 I broke down. I started self harming, at 18 I attempted suicide. I got past that but always suffered with anxiety (didn't know it at the time). I got giagnosed with sever anxiety in my early 30s and although it's now largely managed it's still there. All of this can be traced back to my sister to some degree.

What I'm saying is you need to put your younger daughter 1st sometimes. Don't let her sister's illness ruin her life. This is all so traumatic for her it could have profound affects for many years to come.

I'm very much getting the feeling from your posts that you're more likely to cancel the whole trip than to go without your DD1.

I can understand that but I do think it will give a very bad message to both your DDs - your DD1 will have got the upper hand again, because she has prevented your DD2 from having something for herself, and your DD2 will have lost out on something she has been really excited over for a long time.

While it seems unlikely that your DD2 might follow in her big sister's footsteps, I do worry for her that she might feel it's the only way to regain some interest from you, and some control over her own situation so that her big sister isn't always running the show. As I said, it seems unlikely because I don't think it's a common thing for more than one child in a family to have an ED (but I'm no expert!)

However, I'd still be worried that your DD2 will feel let down, detached, animosity and resentment to her older sister; and that your DD1 might gloat somewhat over having caused DD2 to miss out.

On top of everything else that is going on in your household with the ED in control, I don't think that would be a good thing.

I know it's going to be hard for your DD1 to be left behind, but surely that's kind of the point? If it was piss easy, what would it mean for her? Very little. She would realise she'd missed out on the Disneyland trip of course, but she'd still have a good time. As it is, she's not likely to have a good time, so the consequences of her failing to stick to her eating plan will be borne in on her rather more effectively.

What respite care is potentially available to you, if staying at her Dad's isn't ideal?

Please do not let your younger dd miss out on this. she seems to miss out on so much and is so understanding and respectful of the circumstances that as you say mean she doesn't have the treats or fun that a girl her age should/could.

you set clear parameters with your older dd. they were clear and simple. she has not stuck to them. you cannot go back on what was set out. there will be no good in it for her if you do.
and its a hell of a waste to take her and let her ruin ever aspect of it and therefore dd2 is getting no benefit from it anyway. its a hell of a lot of money to waste on being stuck in a hotel room or worse her ending up in an american hospital.

i know its her illness thats causing a lot of the issues but it affects every single aspect of your lives and you will reach burn out and become unable to care for and help her. and dd2 will eventually become resentful and angry that her childhood was controlled and ruled by her sisters illness.

this trip will be wonderful for your younger dd but also for you. you both need this. please try to not make yourself ill over the decision and please try to not be eaten up by the guilt.

you need on this one occasion put the needs of DD2 first. And you need to stick to your original parameters. plus it helps that her therapist said its not a great idea (though a shame she wasn't more helpful and say a hard no!).

she has someone she can stay with, so you are not abandoning her. and its a parent so its not as if you are putting her in respite care which she could see negatively. you have done all you could and all you can.

please go with just dd2.

You sound like such a good Mum, you are really doing your best in a shitty situation.

I would go with your youngest and have a good time. Sometimes being a parent means putting your foot down and your Dd1 needs to understand that she isn't more important than you and her sister and that you mean what you say. Please don't cancel the holiday, go and enjoy with your DD2

I will not cancel the holiday. It has cost far too much and the insurance won't pay out.

I guess I never put a plan b in place, I didn't ever think it would come to that. Everyone assured me she was so much better, she seemed to be so much better mentally. Then we had a few blips but they are par for the course.

I guess I'm confused as to how suddenly ex is deemed a fit parent to look after her by her therapist when she was all for stopping any contact a month ago! I supppose I was hoping the therapist would say she would recommend respite care but there seems to be no help on offer.

Just to clarify, youngest DD has got a whole load of new clothes too. She hasn't gone without. She is admanant she doesn't want her sister with us.

I worry how DD will be on my return. To stay with a father who can't deal with her for more than one meal usually, who is emotionally abusive to her, who has no idea of her daily routine etc.

Was it just this last week she's lost? And she's steadily gained all the other weeks? If she gained last week then this could just be a natural fluctuation?

If it's really only been one week then I think that's unfair not to take her based on one week out of several.

Otherwise I would say that your other dds needs are equally as important and you should go without older dd. The manipulation can't win. But one week only?

She gained slightly last week, lost a lot the previous week.

It's difficult to explain but I know it isn't regular fluctuation. This amount means something more than that and her behaviour points to it too, she's stopped washing her hair and wearing make up for example. Is very mean with her words and confrontational. The other evening she called me a "fucking whore" because I suggested meatballs and spaghetti for dinner. Sadly I don't even flinch at it anymore. The joys of a teen with an ED.

Your dd2 is telling you she needs a break from her sister. You know if you take her it will be another week of the "dd1 is anorexic show" and dd2 will spend a week being dictated to and sidelined. Any amount of new clothing is not going to change the fact that dd2's life is completely overshadowed by her sister.