To not take DD on holiday

[Strawberryshortcake40]

Have posted about DD before. She is unwell with an eating disorder, it has been over two years now. Life is pretty hellish.

A couple of months ago she seemed to be making progress, it was thought it would be good to give her something to aim for. So a holiday was booked for her, her younger sister and me.

Last month she started getting very manipulative about it all. Saying what her DS could do/not do on holiday, how she wasn't going to keep to our plans etc. Sure enough she had lost weight (her behaviour is a sign). I told her if she lost more weight she could not go. She rallied slightly. Her therapist said if she lost more weight she shouldn't go.

Well with a week to go, she's lost almost a kg in a week. So now WTF do I do? She really isn't well enough to go but is insistent I will "give in and take her".

Her little sister will be devastated not to go away and frankly she needs a break, she cries most evenings before bed at how life is here and it's soul destroying to see how her childhood is being wrecked by this.

But I feel v v sad at the thought of not taking DD who this was all for in the first place, but if I take her it will literally be a whole week of us being dictated to by her illness.

AIBU to not take her??

I think using such a big thing as this holiday as a reward / carrot was a huge mistake and taking it away will really hurt your DD1.

Personally I think you should cancel the whole thing and do something smaller and different with DD2 posed as respite. You'll just have to apologise and say you made a mistake thinking DD1 was well enough for this break.

Also, talk to the therapist about whether moving house on your daughter's random say-so is appropriate. I'm sure it can't be??

I hope things get better for all of you. It must be very difficult.

The trouble is that a person suffering with a mental illness can be very manipulative, I know this from experience, my older DB is seriously mentally ill. He knows very well how to play himself as hard done by compared to me and DSis, we also have our MH issues but we’ve made lives for ourselves with our own families.

My DM’s life has been about my DB for many years and she’s now exhausted. Don’t make that mistake, you need to think about yourself and your younger DD. You should definitely go on the holiday with your younger DD.

Take your younger daughter, leave the eldest as long as there is someone with her

Former teenage MH/ED sufferer here.

Go. Take your younger DD. Your older daughter needs to learn that she - or rather, the anorexia - canNOT control everything. I think this will be a kindness to her in the long run.

I'm assuming you are in contact with www.beateatingdisorders.org.uk/
This Blog might help its from someone recovering (brilliantly) from an eating disorder: joscelinejoy.com/

I don't have the answers. From my experience your DD is still in there but the eating disorder is also there and a lot of time in control.

Leave her behind and go. It's time your younger DD took priority.

I've read all the comments here OP and my thoughts have changed countless times. I suffered with ED growing up and it is only looking back now that i can see it for what it was and the effect it had on my family, especially my younger brother. It makes me feel dreadful.
Given that the mental health worker didn't say that leaving her would cause her untold psychological damage, i would take that as agreeing to her being left behind.
If you all went on holiday i don't think any of you would truly enjoy it. If you cancelled completely, i think it will have a huge negative impact on younger DD.
If you just take your younger DD, the elder one will be upset but she will get over it and hopefully realise she needs to fight her illness a little harder.
Your younger dd desperately needs this break. And so do you. Time away from your eldest will benefit you both tremendously. So when you weigh up the pros and cons, the latter is the best option.
My reservation would be her staying with your grandparents. Not because of her well-being, but because of theirs. Does she get on well with them? Will she make similar threats to them that she has to you? If they genuinely feel they can cope, then let them.
I really do feel for you OP.

One of the reasons I thought she was getting better was I had medical professionals, school (dr, etc) praise how well she is doing. It wasn't as if I blindly thought, hey she's doing well. It seems she has fooled everyone.

She insistent today she is going. No remorse, no acceptance of what she's done.

It will be hellish for her to go to her dads, but again she thought I wouldn't do that

I can never tell which is DD and which is her illness. Things like wanting expensive food come at the price of me going without

There is no illness in the world which makes someone demand expensive food with the consequence that their own mother will go without food herself. No illness whatsoever.

There is a lot of talk here of "it's all the illness", "it's the illness talking and not her" which I think is unhelpful and untrue. The mental illness of anorexia results in a feedback loop between the physical and the mental. But behind it all, there is still the individual with their fundamental personality and their personal responsibility. Remember - anorexia is 'broken' by a series of choices, sometimes brought about through pretty basic treatment. The only person who can choose to make those choices is the individual - your daughter.

Many people wait for the magic day when the realisation that they need to eat normally comes. It can be today, it is not something the gods have stored up - it could be today. But your daughter chooses not to make it today because she is being rewarded by effects of anorexia in some way (e.g. thinness, results of her control etc). Don't reward her even further - go on holiday without her.

The holiday was a reward for what she had achieved at that point.I think to then withdraw it later is shitty and spiteful

No it was on the understanding she got no worse. It was not a treat.

Parent of teens here, one withSN and behavioural problems

Don't take her. Your younger daughter has needs too, and she NEEDS a break.

Your teen's anorexia controls her. DOn't let it control you and your other child too, or it's winning

I think you need to sit down with her and talk about the options. Make the options sound appealing and as though she has some control over what will happen. Tell her she can either stop the nastiness towards you and her sister, try hard to gain a bit of weight (easier said than done) and go on holiday with you both as a family, or she can continue as she is and you and younger dd will go alone. Tell her you want to support her the best you can but her sister also deserves some time away and time to relax, she can be a part of that or she can stay behind with her dad.

Yes she has a mental health condition, yes she needs a lot of support but OP has another dc to consider and herself to look after, the family needs to be able to function or they will all fall apart. There's only so much OP can do to support her dd.

Are you actually insured if she collapses on holiday ?
Travel insurance often won't cover a pre existing condition that is likley to cause a problem.
Medical care is expensive abroad.......

Go on holiday. Everyone deserves respite. Especially your 10 year old. I can't believe that anyone had any other answer than this!!

JUST SEEN YOU ARE GOING TO AMERICA..............

Shouting that you totally need to check your insurance. I'm costs hundreds and hundreds of £££££ for any kind of medical care.

The CAMHS I work with recomm no no holidays abroad and def none out of Europe as the EHIC currently helps.

DONT take her to USA.......

Take your other daughter and let her have fun and be first, before the anorexia......

I wouldn't take her and I'd go with your younger daughter. What message would you be sending if you took her now? I understand that she's very ill but her therapist agrees she shouldn't go and as you said her illness isn't just affecting her. Iv been on both sides of this as i have pnd and DH has PTSD. I don't think you should ever underestimate the impact on loved ones not just the sufferer

I had an ED for many years. Far from feeling you'd be letting her down by not taking her I think you'd be doing her a greater disservice by taking her, under the circumstances.

I agree with her therapist, you can "crowd out" an eating disorder with more appealing things, but for as long as you can have the eating disorder AND all the other lovely things, you will. Something or someone has to make you choose. She doesn't want to choose. She thinks she can keep her best friend (the ED) and live the life of someone without one. She needs to realise on her own that either you're ill or you aren't, and being ill isn't as good as not being. Then she may find her friend a less that enjoyable companion, and may finally decide to fight it. Maybe not right away, but maybe - just maybe - it will be a step on the road to recovery.

I think the issue is that the OP’s elder daughter already knows what the options are but refuses to believe that her mother will follow through with the option of not taking her.

I’m not convinced a discussion at this point will change that. Either there will be a huge tantrum or contrition with lip service being made to working hard this week on her eating and promising to be good on holiday - then reneging on both.

There’s an ongoing pattern in the OP’s posts about how the elder DD is used to her illness allowing her to dominate and control the whole family dynamic - impacting what everyone eats (or can’t afford to eat), where they live, what activities they do - the very emotional temperature of the whole family at any point in time is based on hers.

She’s sure her mother will give in. She’s incapable of acknowledging how damaging her behaviour is or that she’s not really well enough to go on this holiday and that doing so will ruin it for her sister.

It’s a big thing to start standing up to her on, but it’s equally a very big thing on which to let the younger child be let down either by not going or by having the holiday severely restricted and controlled.

At some point she needs to learn the AN isn’t her friend and isn’t beneficial to her life. She’s far from at that place.

The holiday was meant to a be fresh start based on the fact she was getting better. However she’s relapsed and is lying about having done so. She’s already planning on how she intends to control key aspects of the holiday to everyone else’s detriment and doesn’t care.

Taking her is like rewarding the monster that’s starving her.

Strawberry - go on the holiday without elder DD. You may feel renewed strength after and a closer bond with your younger daughter.

The fact is, as you have said, you are scared of your child. She tried to slice your finger off recently. I wouldn't want to take a child who can be physically aggressive without specialist support which you haven't got. Even if she had maintained her weight I would not want to take her as she is aggressive- fine, this is part of her illness but it doesn't change the fact she can be violent. If I was you, part of me might be hoping she hadn't maintained just to give me a reason not to take her due to the fear. This would cause me immense guilt. This would then lead to wanting to take her to prove I hadn't hoped she didn't maintain so I could legitimately leave her behind. Is there part of you that feels that way?

This aside why do you feel a week in respite care would be a bad idea for her? I think seeing the inside of an institute might lead to her being so pleased to be out when you return that she could be more willing to battle her illness.

It's interesting that people who have either been through the same or been a sibling to someone who has all agree you shouldn't take her but still go. I'd listen to those with experience. It won't be easy but I think it's the right thing

I’m not sure that this is about rights and wrongs so much as needs. OP you need a break and so does your younger daughter. While your unwell daughter lives the terrifying grip of a dreadful illness and everyone would dearly love her to be free of illness, she needs you to stay strong which you cannot do without at least some respite. So I would say that if you think you can manage leaving her, do it. Do it for yourself and for your 10yo. And that, in turn, will be a positive for your anorexic daughter.
No good will come if taking her away, you know that.
So sorry OP, what a ghastly time you are having.

You and your younger daughter need respite.

If your older daughter had a chronic serious physical condition people would understand that. Mental illness is no less wearing, and often more.

Tell your daughter the truth: that this isn’t a punishment, but simply that she’s not well enough to go away. And so she will be going to X for the week, and perhaps you all need to take some time out to think about how to move on from here.

I’ve been thinking about this thread a bit more overnight. As a RMN I always like to examine my beliefs and practises and I wanted to check my view I posted yesterday was correct.

From my understanding, people develops eating disorders to have some “control in their lives” when they feel there isn’t any (rightly or wrongly). This control not only covers eating, but spreads to all areas of life. In ED treatment the presence of non negotiable rules eg if you do not eat your main meal you must drink 2 meal replacements, you must not fidget whilst eating, you must sit down for an hour after you finish eating etc are present to remove the element of control from someone with an ED.

I’ve always been taught that it is absolutely imperative to follow through with consequences of not sticking to non negotiable, because people with EDs (or rather the eating disorder itself) will try and push the boundaries and break them down so control is regained. Having thought about it again and reflected I still think taking your younger daughter to Disneyland and leaving your older daughter behind is the best course of action, regardless of how cruel that will seem.