Topshop gender neutral changing rooms part 2

[BahHumbygge]

Part 1 here

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3080957-To-alert-you-to-the-fact-that-Topshop-just-changed-its-policy-to-let-men-into-the-womens-changing-rooms

Don’t pretend like there hasn’t been people on this thread (well thread 1) that have said nasty things about trans people in general.

Clearly I just view this differently to other people.

Can someone please inform me what rights woman have that men don’t also have? Not being goady I’m genuinely curious as I didn’t realise woman had their own set of rights that didn’t apply to men and I’m assuming visa versa?

Isn't 'trapped in the wrong body' out of step now with some of the current trans ideology? Most people who identify as trans don't undergo surgery and 'gender' now rules all, so if a man 'feels' like he is a woman his male body becomes female automatically.

Those with genuine dysphoria are being thrown under a bus and denied much needed support by the current narrative.

I am a man. You may be aware of this from some of my previous posts, but just in case.

There should be some places where only women can go, and some where only men can go. Changing rooms are one. Unisex changing rooms in stores, unless lockable and not able to be looked into, are a no-no as far as I am concerned.

The points many of you raise about how basic dignity and protection for women have been hard fought and taken many years I agree with.

Travis is loving this publicity.

Noone's rights are more important'

Of course that’s not true.

If rights conflict, it needs to be ironed out.

Because, guess what? Women have never had rights. We have had to fight tooth and nail. And even now, women are still struggling. Even in the UK. Look at #metoo, look at the BBC pay scandal. Just in the last couple of months.

Women have the right not to be assaulted. But they still are. Women have the right to equal pay, but they’re still paid less.

It’s not just about right it’s about power. Men have power over women. Which is why they have resisted women enshrining any kind of power in law.

Even now, if a woman wants an abortion, it’s not her automatic right. Two doctors still have to sign off on it.

Women are not pushing this. Even women who identify as men. Transmen are not campaigning to be housed in a male prison, are they?

Men aren’t jumping up and down in case transmen come into their toilet. Because transmen pose no threat. Men aren't concerned if transmen want to compete with them in sport!

If gender, not sex, was the thing that determines power, transmen would be the ones you hear about, the ones in power. And transwomen would be ignored like every other woman.

Hmm rights women have that men don't - maternity leave, protection while breast feeding - rights we need because of our biology.

Rights we ought to have according to law, but which are more honoured in the breach than the observance: equal pay, the right not to be sacked for getting pregnant, the right to walk down the street free from harrassment and assault. (Yes, it happens to men too. No it doesn't happen to men on anything like the scale it does to women).

Rights we don't even yet have: abortion on demand (in fact, in NI and the Isle of Man any sort of abortion) as opposed to the current paternalistic system where two doctors have to sign off on it to say there's a risk to our physical and mental health if the pregnancy continues.

From Scotland:

www.theguardian.com/society/2017/nov/09/legal-recognition-for-non-binary-people-planned-in-scotland

The plans, which are intended to make it simpler and less intrusive for transgender people to be legally recognised, will remove the requirements to provide medical evidence and to live in an acquired gender for two years.

The new self-declaration system, based on the model practiced in the Republic of Ireland, will require an individual to apply to a specialist government unit, to complete a simple applications form and then to sign a statutory declaration before a legal official that they understand the consequences of their actions, and intend to live in their acquired gender for the rest of their life.

James Morton, manager of Scottish Trans Alliance, welcomed the move to self-declaration, saying: “The current process to change the gender on a trans person’s birth certificate is a humiliating, offensive and expensive red-tape nightmare which requires them to submit intrusive psychiatric evidence to a faceless tribunal panel years after they transitioned. It makes sense for birth certificates to be brought into line with the self-declaration process already used to change all other identity documents when trans people start living in their gender identity.”

I don't believe that the process to get a GRC is humiliating and offensive. It's expensive (£140).

I am not sure why the Government wants to go from a GRC process after 2 years and all the medical data etc to a simple self identification process. There could be alternate ways of addressing GRC concerns without going to this extreme alternative.

Rights are a means of women redressing the power imbalance between men and women.

Imagine we were in a different time not so long ago. Women were property; their property transferred to men on marriage; no vote, no voice etc.

Imagine we were in a country in the Middle East or Africa where women are still very oppressed.

Would people like travis still be clamouring to be a woman??

That’s a campaign I would definitely get behind.
There's got to be a few dads who don't want their daughters put in dangerous situations too. Be interesting to see how this one goes.

Snopes isn't a reliable source at all.

The owner is a misogynistic liar.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4730092/Snopes-brink-founder-accused-fraud-lying.html

With regards to Target's share price, when the policy was announced on 19th April 2016, it was at $83.98. The share price immediately dropped, and a month later it stood at $68.66.

dailysignal.com/2016/05/03/target-stock-drops-in-wake-of-transgender-bathroom-policy/

It has since fallen further, and stands today at $58.63.

The Snopes article claims that a particular one-day fall was not because of the bathroom policy, what it does not claim is that the boycott has had no effect - it has.

2018Baby please report any transphobic posts you see. MNHQ will delete those for you.

2018babyonboard

I think you’re probably coming at this from a good place. You want to be kind. You don’t want your friend to be upset. Which of course, I totally understand.

Can I suggest that you just take a quick look at feminism. Having an understanding of feminism gives you a huge insight into why this is damaging to women.

Why this has gained the traction it has.

Why women are very, very concerned. And why they’re not getting listened to!

It really, really is not about being kind. I promise.

I am kind!

Can I suggest that you just take a quick look at feminism. Having an understanding of feminism gives you a huge insight into why this is damaging to women

What do you make of the reaction of these women's groups to the Scottish consultation?

On Thursday, a coalition of Scottish women’s organisations, including Engender, Rape Crisis Scotland and Women 50:50, stated that they would collaborate with trans and other equality organisations to ensure that the new processes were appropriately designed.

In a jointly issued statement in support of legal reform for gender recognition, they added: “We do not regard trans equality and women’s equality to be in competition or contradiction with each other. We support the Equal Recognition campaign and welcome the reform of the Gender Recognition Act. Rape Crisis and Women’s Aid in Scotland provide trans inclusive services on the basis of self identification

This is untrue. It is still legal to discriminate if it's a proportionste means of achieving a ligitimate aim. Sport being one example

What do you mean by that? If someone has a GRC, when is it still legal to discriminate?

I think in elite sport you still need testosterone tests before you can run on women's races.

"I am not sure why the Government wants to go from a GRC process after 2 years and all the medical data etc to a simple self identification process."

It will save the NHS a fortune. No more therapy sessions and having to pay for a life time of hormones.

To be honest, if it leads to fewer children being given puberty blockers and fewer young women having mastectomies, i can see an advantage to the proposed changes.

We do not regard trans equality and women’s equality to be in competition or contradiction with each other.

Have you seen the guidelines that are being used in Scotland? Manipulative propaganda supplied by trans pressure groups.

Last week David Davies (the Welsh MP) and some feminist groups met at the Houses of Parliament to talk to the handful of MPs who had agreed to meet with them.

The MPs, despite having been written to several times, were shocked.

They heavily criticised Maria Miller and the transgender equality report and said that the committee had been woefully uninformed.

Anyone (who isn’t a trans-activist) who actually listens to the arguments against self identification, gets it.

Sagamartha when it comes down to genetics, such as in high level competative sport. A GRC will rightly mean fuck all.

It will save the NHS a fortune. No more therapy sessions and having to pay for a life time of hormones

What makes you think that self identification will cut down on the treatment the NHS offer?

I don't think that having a GRC without HRT and surgery will solve the gender dysphoria that most trans people who transition need.

Topshop staff seemed nonplused by my enquiry on their new changing room policy when I called the helpline on 0344 984 0264. Let me know if anyone else can get a straight answer.

What makes you think that self identification will cut down on the treatment the NHS offer?

I don’t think that. And I think people are mistaken. Gender dysphoria will still be treatable. But claiming you are transgender will not be considered an illness.

I’m assuming someone who does not have gender dysphoria, but wants to be trans-, will claim they do have gender dysphoria in order to get the hormones.

I’d trust Breitbart as far as I can throw Steve Bannon.

Not to be goady - serious question- where does the WI stand on the issues raised by the current GRA wording?