To be terrified that this is the future for the UK? (Sorry, yes it's a Brexit one)

[Rainbunny]

The US Commerce Secretary just made a speech in which he demands that the UK scrap EU food standards on GM crops and animal farming standards after Brexit. Even more sinister were his words indicating that the USA expects to have influence in whatever Brexit deal the UK makes... "He said that it was critical that US interests must be taken into account when finalising an exit deal with the EU..!"

This is exactly what I've been afraid of and it looks to be coming true and the UK as a lone country will not be able to refuse whatever trade deal the USA demands. I get that people who voted leave are still happy they did but is this what they want to have happen?

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/us-brexit-eu-uk-trade-deal-wilbur-ross-commerce-secretary-imports-exports-european-union-a8040571.html

[Peregrina]

Also on the note of the Black Death surely that was a good thing despite the massive loss of life?

This can only be said with the benefit of the passing of at least a couple of centuries. There is an argument that it improved the basic health of Europeans, because only the strong survived to be able to reproduce. Living through it few people would regard whole villages being wiped out as a 'good thing'.

[Somerville]

That post from Ttbb made me choke over my mouthful of tea. Sorry, but that's batshit.

[TheElementsSong]

“Brexit - as beneficial as the Black Death!”

That’s it, now I’m convinced

[makeourfuture]

It makes me irrationally angry that I can't buy 'imperfect' aubergines with noses when I am in Britain

The EU defines different grades of vegetables. It keeps sellers from mis-marking "imperfect" vegetables as superior grades.

[allegretto]

It makes me irrationally angry that I can't buy 'imperfect' aubergines with noses

This thread is very educational. I didn't even know aubergines came with noses! Now I want one.

[bengalcat]

Me too - as in I want an aubergine with a nose

[thecatfromjapan]

Ttb

Also on the note of the Black Death surely that was a good thing despite the massive loss of life?

I'm guessing you've been reading "Inferno" by Dan Brown, where the anti-hero plots to unleash a nano-plague on the human species with the intention of getting rid of 2/3 of the population (as did the Black Death) for the greater good.

I'm hoping that Brexit will not be quite so effective.

Your post does, however, shine a light on the altruism - "pain for future gain" - of Brexiters. My suspicion is that those caught up in the historical event of the Black Death at the sharp end (dying in agony; walled up in their homes to die; watching their loved ones die) would fail to be consoled by a time-traveller from the future explaining that some historians posit the Black Death as making the Renaissance possible (for the descendents of those that survived).

Likewise, I suspect that much of the altruism of the Brexiteers rests upon a calm assumption that they will be exalted from being on the sharp end of historical events. Why? Well, I think it is a. born of the experience of many decades of political calm (the "It will always go on being like this" fallacy,) and b. the historical fallacy: no-one ever imagines themselves as being one of the voiceless, nameless, wiped-out of history, do they? History is told to us - by and large - by the survivors, and we read it as 'survivors'.

(b) has a caveat: I suspect one or two of us on this thread don't have that calm assurance - having either lived through bad historical and political experiences, or having relatives (even long-dead relatives) who weren't historically so lucky.

[Peregrina]

My own theory about the Renaissance was that it happened as a result of the fall of Byzantium, when people fled westwards and brought new ideas with them. Hence learning not just in the arts but sciences and mathematics too - with e.g. the concept of zero being introduced to Europe, which came originally from India.

People fleeing i.e. immigrants/refugees so actually a good thing, not a bad.

[thecatfromjapan]

@ Peregrina

[wasonthelist]

This thread presents a small insight into some of the reasons the vote turned out as it did.
OP you can be terrified if you wish - it seems you are not alone.
I’m not terrified of US food. If I don’t approve of it I won’t buy it. I don’t buy any Murdoch newspapers, don’t have (have never and will never) Sky tv or broadband, cos I don’t approve of them either.

[Peregrina]

If I don’t approve of it I won’t buy it.

But there will be others who can only afford to buy cheap chlorinated chicken. You can be 100% sure it won't be May, Johnson, Gove, Leadsom, Fox, Davis, IDS, Redwood and the rest of the sorry crowd who are either wealthy enough themselves or married to wealth and will be able to afford the premium ranges of food. Not people struggling to make ends meet.

[Chickenkatsu]

YABU. We've put our entire country's future in the hands of David Davies, what could possibly go wrong?

[Somerville]

...And the funding given to provide free school meals and hospital meals will be lowered by the government because cheaper meat is now on the market.
Plus, British farmers will struggle to compete and ultimately there will be less choice.

It's much, much more complicated than just allowing any substandard foodstuffs on the basis that those who don't approve won't buy it.

[Motheroffourdragons]

Exactly - you might not buy it for yourself wasonthelist - but you won't know whether it is in your child's school dinner, or your parent's at the care home.

This isn't about looking at individual tiny issues anyway - it is about looking at the whole picture, and seeing what that does to the whole community.

[StigmaStyle]

Maybe Theresa May appointed David Davies to handle Brexit , and also BoJo as foreign secretary, as part of a long game to make sure it all does go very badly tits up so that we will have to reconsider.

After all she must have had some kind of reasoning...

[wasonthelist]

Peregrina I agree. I did not vote for any of that sorry crew since I disagree with 90+% of their policies.

[Humpsfor20yards]

This thread presents a small insight into some of the reasons the vote turned out as it did

How do you mean?

People voted brexit because they wanted lower quality meat?

[KennDodd]

Whatsonthelist
You're assuming chicken will be labelled as such.

Beside, if only the worst thing about Brexit was chlorinated chicken.

[WiseUpJanetWeiss]

I sure hope so. The EU standards remove consumer choice and encourage inefficiency. It makes me irrationally angry that I can't buy 'imperfect' aubergines with noses when I am in Britain. Rules for labelling organic are also fairly lax. Then of course the cost of fresh produce is driven up without any meaningful improvement.

You don’t actually believe that EU regulations prevent the selling of misshapen vegetables do you?

[Melassa]

Well I live in deepest EU and there's plenty of imperfect, misshapen veg here. I suspect the perfect veg in U.K supermarket aisles is driven more by U.K consumer demand than EU rules.

[Melassa]

allegretto I had an aubergine with a willy on it. Unfortunately it ended up in my caponata last night, had I known about this thread I'd have kept it and photographed it as evidence of wonky Mediterranean veg.

[Humpsfor20yards]

Well, she did admit she was 'irrationally' angry.

[HipToBeSquare]

Yanbu @OP. But some of the replies from those who are in favour of leaving regardless of the outcome is mind-blowing.

I am however starting to seriously believe it wont happen and that May is only being kept in so they can over throw her closer to March 19 and say it's too chaotic to leave for the time being.

Otherwise it's truly just madness.

[jay95]

Time for the government to come clean, admit the referendum was a huge mistake (not to mention a daft and careerist gamble by Cameron) because the vast majority of people couldn't grasp the issues whichever way they voted, and reverse the whole thing.

[Kittykatmacbill]

“Brexit - as beneficial as the Black Death

That is the best single strapline for brexit, I have ever seen. The whole thing is utter lunacy. The thought that deregulation, redistribution of wealth and worker rights (which is what the eu is best for) are universally perceived as a good idea is heartbreaking.