To be terrified that this is the future for the UK? (Sorry, yes it's a Brexit one)

[Rainbunny]

The US Commerce Secretary just made a speech in which he demands that the UK scrap EU food standards on GM crops and animal farming standards after Brexit. Even more sinister were his words indicating that the USA expects to have influence in whatever Brexit deal the UK makes... "He said that it was critical that US interests must be taken into account when finalising an exit deal with the EU..!"

This is exactly what I've been afraid of and it looks to be coming true and the UK as a lone country will not be able to refuse whatever trade deal the USA demands. I get that people who voted leave are still happy they did but is this what they want to have happen?

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/us-brexit-eu-uk-trade-deal-wilbur-ross-commerce-secretary-imports-exports-european-union-a8040571.html

[Peregrina]

you can bet your house that there'd be no talk of second referendums if you'd won.

Nonsense - Farage made it quite clear that if the result had been 52:48 for Remain, it would have been unfinished business. Where is Farage incidentally? Do we see him putting his back into making Brexit work? Seeking out investment opportunities for the North, and other deprived areas? If he is, I seem to have missed it.

[DanicaJones]

Yanbu

[StigmaStyle]

We started life as an independent trading nation and we'll re-embrace that status

Yes let's go back to the good old days. We also started out with no NHS, high infant mortality, the death penalty and torture, women were chattels, and workers had a feudal peasant system. Hoorah!

[Oddmanout]

There really is no point to these threads - no one will ever convince anyone on the other side or change their mind so why waste your time?

[ManateeEquineOHara]

'Remoaners'
So we should get over it and accept isolating ourselves, lower standards, higher costs of living etc thanks to the Murdoch fed idiots. I'd rather not.

[Motheroffourdragons]

These arguments have been done to death and I CBA to re-hash it.

The usual response.

I am getting over nothing. I am quietly confident that hard Brexit will not happen now, we have done absolutely nothing concrete in terms of infrastructure to facilitate it over the past 17 months, and have about the same left till the clock stops. We will have to at least extend the time while we continue to faff about getting nowhere or choose a soft option like EEA which will mean very little changes except that we get to keep all the things brexiters don't like and still pay the money, but get no say.

[expotition]

No one will ever change their mind? Really? Is that normal, to go from no opinion to having one and then sticking to it ever afterwards regardless of anything that happens in the world around you?

And if that's true, why on earth are you bothering to come on the thread to say so? You won't convince anyone

[Sketchily]

The thing is though, although there are some brexiteers that have thought it through, many of them just wanted to see what would happen, voted as a protest vote, had some view of a return to a mythical 50s Britain. It’s so worrying. My husband’s company (top 500) is moving a lot of its jobs to the Continent. Boris Johnson is not a stupid man, he knew the implications but campaigned for it to further his political ambitions. Shame on him.

[makeourfuture]

Where is Farage

Somewhere with a pint and a fag.

[Alltheprettyseahorses]

YANBU - and I'm with Doobigetta upthread. I'm sick of the way we pussyfoot around the consequences of the unbelievably stupid Brexit vote, just to placate often aggressive and abusive Leavers. Who are probably acting like that because they know what they've done but can't admit it.

The MPs need to do their job. Country, Constituency, Party in that order - but now all any of them care about is Party. It is not good enough. Mind, someone blamed Blair for this. You can guarantee that, whatever you think of him, if Blair were PM then there would have been a decisive Remain vote.

[StigmaStyle]

Actually as an A-grade remoaner, I think Brexit will not go ahead because at some point, the shocking cost, in all sorts of areas, will sink in with the public and another referendum will be demanded. I predict that some senior tories will eventually come out and say "you know what, fuck this because it can't work financially, we are going to be shafted".

Just this morning the NHS are pointing out that they would like the 350 million per week as promised, and the irony is the government can't afford that because of the cost of Brexit - and that's just the initial set-up cost not the long-term damage.

You can't just flounce out of a union and declare that it will will all be fine because you're a once-great country and somehow you'll discover vast reserves of skills, education and assets that weren't there yesterday. Well you can, and brexiteers do but it's deluded.

It's like a teenager flouncing off and declaring they're leaving home because their parents expect them to contribute to the housework, before realising that they're not going to be a pop star by tomorrow and it's going to cost a fuck of a lot of money they don't have.

[Oddmanout]

Stigma - it wouldn't surprise me if it didn't go ahead to be honest. The government never expected a yes and they're clearly headless chickens now.

[LaurieMarlow]

I don't understand why brexiteers don't get it. The world has moved on. Our empire has gone. The world is far more interconnected now than it ever was. We're seeing the rise of new superpowers (china/India/Brazil). The US has become a toxic partner in the world stage.

We are just a small country on the edge of Europe, poised to throw away our greatest economic assets (our banking sector). There's no glorious destiny for us to embrace, just obscurity. Nobody else cares about the 1950s glory days. All they see is a deluded country, shooting itself spectacularly in the foot. We will be far more dependent on them than they in us when it comes to trade deals and I dread to see how terrible those deals pan out to be.

[AdoraBell]

Can’t open the links, on phone, will read it later. From what I’ve seen so far it’s very worrying.

[Humpsfor20yards]

We started life as an independent trading nation and we'll re-embrace that status once Brexit is signed, sealed and delivered.
You can't turn the clocks back

That is too funny it must be satire, no?

I've heard of brexiteers harking back to the golden era of the 1st and 2nd World war when England single-handedly beat all the baddies. Now, they harken back to the Elizabethan Age - and at the same time say you can't turn the clocks back?

Errrrrrrr.

[KennDodd]

Yes let's go back to the good old days. We also started out with no NHS, high infant mortality, the death penalty and torture, women were chattels, and workers had a feudal peasant system. Hoorah!

In fairness, some Leavers I know voted for exactly that rose tinted (to them) England (I say England deliberately) of the past were the rest of the world knew it's place. They celebrate headlines of EU nationals leaving. Plus, wasnt 'traditional values' (death penalty and corporal punishment) a big predictor in voting Leave.

[pallasathena]

Yes...it is satire....well spotted!!

[sweetbitter]

I honestly have no idea what will happen any more. Except it seems very unlikely this whole thing will be done and dusted by the March 2019 deadline.

As a Remainer and someone with huge personal interest in Brexit not happening, I want to believe it ultimately won't go ahead. But from what I see, the government seem to be plowing on with it, albeit slowly. I don't get why, if it is true (as it seems) that it will be economic suicide, they are just going ahead, unless they a) don't care about anything except being seen to execute the will of the people or b) are fully expecting to back out or have a second referendum at some point.

[raglansleeve]

For Brexiteers who imagine that we can go back to trading as we did pre EU/EEC/Common Market, the world has moved on. We no longer have a significant manufacturing base. We are not a world leader in much any more, China is doing far more with regard to renewables etc, we are trailing in technology advancements - did anyone hear the news report from Seoul yesterday where 3.5million residents have 1GB internet speeds; '3rd world' countries in Africa make better use of mobile phone technologies to transact business.

We don't have the agricultural capacity to feed ourselves, we have a significantly ageing population, an NHS on it's knees from underfunding, an education system which doesn't seem to know what it's outcomes are, big businesses who avoid paying tax in the UK plundering our seemingly insatiable need for cheap tat.

Oh, but of course, we can trade with the Commonwealth. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah.
Factor in freight costs for Australia/New Zealand/Canada as opposed to France/Germany/Poland. Always assuming Australia et al want anything we've got.
What about Malaysia/India/Nigeria/Zimbabwe/Pakistan? They love their former colonial overlords, right? Or if not, there's always Zimbabwe. Of course, China is already doing massive deals with most of Africa but I'm sure they'd make room for little old us.


As for our country being overpopulated - it's not down to EU migration; 5% of the UK population are EU Nationals, or approx. 2.9 million. That's a drop in the ocean. Or are Brexiteers conflating EU Nationals with the 2.4% of the population who are from other parts of the world. So that's a total non British population of 5.3M, or approx. 8% (source: Reality check 08/07/16). Or are some Brexiteers like someone I heard a few months ago who reckoned us leaving the EU would be a good thing because 'We can send all the Muslims home......'

I despair

[StigmaStyle]

At the moment there seems to be a massive reluctance to be seen to question "the will of the people" (even though it was the will of fewer than half of them) and a dogma that you're not being democratic as a politician of you dare to say that Brexit was a shit idea. Only the Lib Dems have embraced that as they have little to lose (not that I'm bashing them - good on them.)

Theresa May was asked if she'd vote for Brexit now and wouldn't answer because of this. But there will probably be a tipping point, one that either precipitates or comes along with the next election or tory leadership contest, where it becomes OK to say "I didn't vote for this Brexit shitshow" as a vote winner.

I am disappointed that May doesn't do it now, as I think she'd actually gain respect. She was (cautiously) anti-Brexit, her USP is appearing "sensible" and if she said "Brexit is a very difficult challenge, as everyone knows it wasn't my choice and now some of the difficulties I foresaw are coming true" it would look better than the monumental attempt to save face she's currently attempting.

[Fitzsimmons]

I'm a remainer. I genuinely don't care anymore. Before the referendum I believed that Brexit would be terrible for a lot of people and still do. However, I know that personally my family will be OK thanks to the options that are open to us. I feel sorry for other remainers who don't have those options, but having seen the leavers dig deeper into their delusions I think they deserve every bit misery coming their way. They wanted to ruin Britain, they've got their wish, so fuck em.

[StigmaStyle]

Oh god raglan so true about immigration. Loads of brexiteers interviewed during the referendum were opining about wanting to get rid of immigrants with a goodly proportion of plain old racism involved in many of the comments (though I absolutely don't tar all brexiteers with racism. NABALT)

So if they manage to stop so many Poles and Lithuanians coming in who's going to come to pick the fruit and staff the starbucks? Yes immigrants from other places further afield. I mean doh.

[Peregrina]

Yes, it would be good for Theresa May to change her mind, and to throw down the gauntlet to the arch - Leavers in her Cabinet to tell them to find a replacement. I don't know what the process is now, she can't do like Major did and resign and stand again and see off a challenger. We didn't see Boris rushing last time, and I doubt whether he would want to now.

[makeourfuture]

It would help perception if the Government was more transparent. Have they published those reports yet?