To be terrified that this is the future for the UK? (Sorry, yes it's a Brexit one)

[Rainbunny]

The US Commerce Secretary just made a speech in which he demands that the UK scrap EU food standards on GM crops and animal farming standards after Brexit. Even more sinister were his words indicating that the USA expects to have influence in whatever Brexit deal the UK makes... "He said that it was critical that US interests must be taken into account when finalising an exit deal with the EU..!"

This is exactly what I've been afraid of and it looks to be coming true and the UK as a lone country will not be able to refuse whatever trade deal the USA demands. I get that people who voted leave are still happy they did but is this what they want to have happen?

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/us-brexit-eu-uk-trade-deal-wilbur-ross-commerce-secretary-imports-exports-european-union-a8040571.html

[Rainbunny]

Wasonthelist - it's great that you will avoid any food made to USA standards.

How do plan to identify GMO food/chlorinated chicken etc...? The USA will demand (and the UK will agree of course) that there will be NO labeling identifying the origins of meat/GMO etc... so you won't be able to tell.

[DJBaggySmalls]

Is this the the real reason Brexit was proposed?

Tax avoidance to be banned under new EU regulations.
ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/company-tax/anti-tax-avoidance-package_en

[HateIsNotGood]

Why do the UK have to do as the USA demands? Suddenly Trumpish USA is a 'force to be obeyed' and the UK will sheepishly fold?

I really do sympathise with those that feel the UK has been sent on a trajectory of self-destruction but really it's not like we are suddenly without water, are killing each other, living through war or a plague of locusts, etc, etc. Now maybe we could be terrified a bit then.

But Brexit, nah, I don't feel the "terror".

[Humpsfor20yards]

I really do sympathise with those that feel the UK has been sent on a trajectory of self-destruction but...

I'm getting the impression that a. you don't really sympathise and b. You don't really believe it's a trajectory of self-destruction.

Is that unfair?

[Downtheroadfirstonleft]

Lordy. Who'd have thought that we'd have a thread combining bubonic plague and aubergine noses... I think we all need a nice cup of tea....

[HateIsNotGood]

O right on Karma, that's completely totally how it all works is it? So only one extrapolated model is the complete explanation of all. So, no need for all those pesky economists, policy makers, researchers and conflicting views constantly re-evaluating and forming new models, approaches and views?

Now take meat to eat. I've been a bit subjected to the 'how dare ye' mention this before but the great UK BSE/CJD epidemic never happened. But Germany was full on our backside helping progress the myth and subjugate our 'beef production' to the 30 month rule. Teaming up with the USA to do it. Our speciality was grass-fed mature beef - gone, for 2 decades - UK herds are just coming back to maturity.

And no, I'm not in farming any more, with the 'gentrification' of the countryside, I can't afford to return. That's a UK-homemade situation, not caused by the EU.

And I'm not rich, poor if anything, but that doesn't mean I'm going to eat shit food just because it's "marketed" to me. Surely the 'marketers' are aiming at the people with more money to spend than poor people, those stupid enough to spend their money on shit food. Certainly not The Poor who have no money.

[DJBaggySmalls]

Why do the UK have to do as the USA demands? Suddenly Trumpish USA is a 'force to be obeyed' and the UK will sheepishly fold?

Yes, thats exactly whats happening. We're are about to get the US style health system. We are about to adopt their food and farming standards.
We dont have to be in a war zone to be upset about that. Its ok to be upset and want to do something about it before we end up with no health care and undrinkable water.

[HateIsNotGood]

And Humps you are correct on B. A, incorrect as I do sympathise when people are disturbed and distressed for whatever reason even if it isn't something that would upset me.

[LaurieMarlow]

Why does the UK have to do as the USA demands?

Isn't that staggeringly obvious?

USA has all the power in this negotiation. Why do they need a trade deal with us? What do we have that they want, apart from a get in to Europe, which is something they can take or leave. Whereas cutting a trade deal is hugely important to us in showing that we can forge alliances outside the EU. With USA the obvious place to start.

It's a tailor made opportunity for them to fuck us in the ass.

[HateIsNotGood]

Did I miss the bit where the USA have agreed their health system for us to adopt? Last I heard they were still messing around with theirs and arguing loudly about it.

Can someone please direct me to the change in legislation that states we are now changing our food and farming standards to lower levels because of Brexit? Now that might upset me a bit, as not only obviously a bad business decision but I'd rather eat our
really excellent produce than it was exported and I had only chlorinated chicken to eat. Facts please.

[Anlaf]

Late to this but had to jump in and say I hope:

We started life as an independent trading nation and we'll re-embrace that status
You can't turn the clocks back

is a Russian bot because surely no plucky Brit should be so muddled in their thinking

but i see rufus, peregrina and Humpsfor had everything under control

YANBU OP, it's terrifying even if (understandably) people cannot bear to pay constant attention to the developments, or lack of them

I'm still glued to twitter, for all the good it does me

[Anlaf]

Can I interject on the matter of aubergine noses

The EU roolz on the presentation and classification of fruit/veg have (where these roolz exist) mainly been copied and pasted from other world regs. Those world regs are mostly made by a body called the Codex Alimentarius. We will abide by these rules outside the EU, unless we seek to be like north korea.

It transpires though that the aubergine nose thing might be bollocks.

Apologies if I have missed this but as far as I can see, the only in-force aubergine formation EU regulation is on miniature aubergines being the same size as others in a packet

HOWEVER, excitingly a new world standard for aubergines has been in the pipeline for a few years. Sadly, the standard for ware potato was returned to the working group level for further work.

fucking brexit making me care about fucking regulations and FACTS

EVIDENCE FOR THE MUMSNET JURY
No specific EU marketing standard for aubergines: ec.europa.eu/agriculture/fruit-and-vegetables/marketing-standards_en
No specific UK marketing standard for aubergines www.gov.uk/guidance/comply-with-marketing-standards-for-fresh-fruit-and-vegetables

Sell as many fucking aubergine noses as you like

[Julie8008]

Around 4 million Brits visit the USA every year, I wonder what they eat? I have never head a single person come back and say they had to starve for 2 weeks?

Seems the complaints about food have just been invented by remainers to try and stop Brexit.

Where are all these Americans dying off from their low food standards?

[PaintingByNumbers]

Yeah, suck it up you fussy brits, just eat your crappy processed food thats not good enough for the rest of europe

[Anlaf]

Presumably they're experiencing poor health and increased mortaility in the US

Here is a nice pesticide or two for us to look forward to
Eighty-two pesticides are banned in the EU on health and environmental grounds – but not in the US. Among these 82 pesticides are permethrin, the broad spectrum insecticide that is classed as a likely carcinogen and suspected endocrine disruptor, and atrazine, a herbicide thought to affect the immune system, which has also been linked to birth defects.

Here is one banned in the EU www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/17/california-pesticides-central-valley-trump

And another 80 www.nytimes.com/2015/02/24/business/international/a-pesticide-banned-or-not-underscores-trans-atlantic-trade-sensitivities.html

Interesting that the EU goes by the precautionary principle: companies must prove their products are safe before they can be used.

The US needs the products to be demonstrated as dangerous before withdrawing.

Took 30-odd years for the UK to ban general sales of lead paint, after manufacturers accepted it could be dangerous (to children) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead-based_paint_in_the_United_Kingdom And worth noting we banned lead paint because the EU law banned it.

I want to live in a country where products are tested as safe before they're sold or used. Sorry.

[Julie8008]

Yeah, suck it up you fussy brits, just eat your crappy processed food thats not good enough for the rest of europe

if you dont like processed food then dont eat it, it nothing to do with Brexit.

[Julie8008]

I want to live in a country where products are tested as safe before they're sold or used. Sorry.

Then vote for a UK government that will do that. Why do you feel the need to infantilize the UK and give foreign countries the power to tell us what we can and can't eat?

[AndhowcouldIeverrefuse]

Thanks Anlaf that was brilliant

I am a regular consumer of aubergines and have never seen one with a nose. I feel deprived

[wasonthelist]

How do plan to identify GMO food/chlorinated chicken etc..

Carry on getting it from my local butcher is my plan.

[wasonthelist]

Think ASDA and the farmers and you will get a gist.

But we didn't need Walmart to buy Asda to start shafting the farmers. Our home-grown supermarkets (one in particular) have been doing it for ages. In fact supermarkets have destroyed a lot of small independent shops using just the techniques you outline - not related to Brexit.

[Doobigetta]

Then vote for a UK government that will do that. Why do you feel the need to infantilize the UK and give foreign countries the power to tell us what we can and can't eat?

Sweet Jesus, and I thought the black death argument was moronic.

[Carolinesbeanies]

"The US Commerce Secretary just made a speech in which he demands that the UK scrap EU food standards on GM crops and animal farming standards after Brexit. Even more sinister were his words indicating that the USA expects to have influence in whatever Brexit deal the UK makes"

OP, the Independant are utterly misconstruing what he said. This isnt a bad thing, and he certainly didnt talk about 'chlorine chicken' as the Independant imply, and GM crops. Naughty naughty Independant.

Try this version of what he said.

The key point he was talking round was this.

"But there were several "key hindrances" that US business wanted dropped, such as a lack of access to the standard-setting and regulatory processes, barriers to trade and investment in digital sectors and high tariffs in sectors such as cars. "

In easy words, because the US are not involved in any EU standard and regulatory processes, (which theyre not) how on earth do you agree any US/UK trade agreement, whilst a 3rd party (the EU) dictates standards and regulations?

Absolutely fair point, if anyone were considering 'remaining' under the cosh of EU regs and controls. Hence the impact of any possible deal done between the UK and the EU.

Absolutely no suggestion regs and standards are removed (which is what your implying) and we all start eating shit cos its cheap and thats what Americans eat.

The UK must be free to enforce and agree their own regs and standards to be able to agree any bi-lateral trade. If they mirror the EUs in general, fine. That in turn would maintain trade standards within the EU. But 'mirroring', with absolute control in the UK, is very different to EU absolute control. The US/UK must be free to agree any variances on UK/US products. Thats what hes saying. Its not rocket science but clearly the Independant are struggling with trade concepts.

www.cityam.com/275228/wilbur-ross-uk-use-brexit-ditch-eus-protectionism-and/amp

[frumpety]

So Caroline you are saying that we should forgo one type of protectionism , which we currently benefit from as a partner in a trading bloc and swap it for doing trade deals with one of the most protectionist countries on the planet ?

[Anlaf]

Then vote for a UK government that will do that. Why do you feel the need to infantilize the UK and give foreign countries the power to tell us what we can and can't eat?

We have relatively little negotiating power, compared with a bigger partner (the EU or the US). If the US want us to accept chlorinated chicken, then it won't matter if we feel infantilised, we will accept chlorinated chicken

The US will want us to accept chlorinated chicken:

The US Trade Priorities Act has negotiating objectives for any trade deal.

These include a requirement that "progress" is reached on Trade in Agriculture and in particular that the deal should:
encourage the adoption of international standards and require a science based justification be provided for a sanitary or phytosanitary measure if the measure is more restrictive than the International standard

That means we have to demonstrate the scientific basis for our not accepting the chlorinated and phosphated chicken which the US wants to sell us.

Not just "we don't believe it's safe, please demonstrate it is before we allow you to import and sell it"

But perhaps our government will tell the US to sling their hook. So no trade deal.

But then we'll fall on WTO rules which will require us to justify why the scientific and technical information we have is enough for us to discriminate against the US by setting UK standards which don't allow chlorinated chicken. In short: we need to prove why we put obstacles in place when people want to sell things to people in the UK. Note that we'll have to do this for anything any country wants to dispute with us: paint with a touch of lead, perhaps.

As an example the WTO made the EU pay $116m per year for banning hormones in beef sold in the EU. There was scant evidence on whether these were safe or harmful when the EU banned them, although at least one hormone was known to cause birth defects.

so I will not be able to vote for a UK government which goes for "safety first", because my country will have given up its sovereignty on what we can and can't eat: either through a US trade deal or through trading on WTO rules

OR WE COULD STAY IN THE EU and make a decent fist of things with the neighbours -a very British thing to do.