To ask for your comebacks to being asked if I'm a full time mum?

[RemainOptimistic]

Got asked this today in the context of small talk. I couldn't think on the spot so just muttered about going back to work.

What can I say in future? How about "oh why do you ask, are you a part time mum too?" or is that too rude?

This debate really highlights how easily women feel and are attacked for their life choices.

Personally as long as the person asking the question isn’t doing it to demean me, I don’t have a problem.

It seems to me that SAHPs see this question as a slight to them (worthless boring non-contributing etc) , while WOHPs see it as an insult to them (not real parents, don't love their kids as much, bad parents etc)

Can't win can we?

Bit out of practice - apart from the ones who take literally no offence what so ever.

Frankly most people are so self absorbed they aren't really interested in what anyone else is doing

Letha my dc are now in primary school. One of them even has a male teacher.

Not sure what the relevance is.

I would say 'yes, I am a full time mum in addition to having a job.'

I think people say FTM as they think SAHM might be insulting. They are trying to say the the Mum bit is a big full time job, rather than staying at home being passive.

But I agree with posters who say you can't win with the walking offended. I think there's a lot of insecure people around.

Lethaldrizzle that group includes me. I've long ago given up giving a shit about what anyone else makes of my life choices

I always wonder whether the people who are offended by "full time mother" use the phrase "working mother" to describe themselves.

The implication of that is that SAHM do not work. Well, in the same way as "full time mother" implies that those who have paid employment somehow shed their children completely when at their place of employment. Both can be seen as "insulting" when really they aren't.

I agree MadMags. I don't choose childcare based on sex but on the best person for the job. It just so happens though that the majority of childminders etc are also female. Hence my childminder happens to be female but we chose her on personal recommendation (she also cared for my grown up DSDs!) I don't pay her to be a mother, I pay her to care for them when we are at work, which she does brilliantly. But we know our dc better than anyone, love them unconditionally and would die for them. That is a parent's 'job' and what sets us apart from a care provider.

If the person asking doesn't work, they are probably just trying to gauge if you are going to be around for coffee/trips to the park/a bit of reciprocal childcare. They won't be judging you or trying to insult you. Why would they?

How else would you like them to phrase it?

Do you work? Implies raising kids requires no effort.
Are you a stay at home mum? Implies you spend the day in Pjs watching Jeremy Kyle.
Are you a full time mum? Implies working mums are only part time parents.

Mad mags - you seem to be missing my point. Given that I generally and so far exclusively have only employed women to look after my kids - I think of them as a mother replacement, - given their gender. What male teachers have got to do with anything, I have no idea!

You asked me if I would hire a man to care for my children. I said a man currently supervises one my children given he's her teacher.

So that's what it has to do with it.

Maybe if you clarified what you were implying by asking if I would allow a male to do childcare, we can minimise the misunderstanding?

To me it is often the context in which it is said.

I know one lady who is always on about being a "full time mum". How lucky other mums are to get a break every day as she is at home full time having to keep the children entertained, she can never can take holidays, can never have a day of sick and is always hyper busy with family time (even though she once let slip that she has a cleaner, and now all 3 children are at school). Everybody gets annoyed when she talks about the "part-time mothers" ... as it feels derogatory in some way.

For most other people who are not as outspoken / competitive / (its difficult to get the right term here) / insecure about their choices as a mother, nobody bats an eyelid if they talk about "full time mum" / "stay at home mum" / "work at home mother" as they are not trying to make a pointed comment.

Madmags - most childcarers - be they nannies, childminders etc - are female - I was just checking if this has always been your experience, it seems it has but I would not like to make assumptions - therefore describing that child care person as a replacement mother was entirely based on their gender but of course if you do not want to mention gender - they are a replacement parent. But I think it's nit picking.

We also have to do everything in terms of school runs, homework, housework etc that SAHPs do for their children, on top of our other jobs.

There's no way you do everything for your children when working that I do for mine when I'm not. That's not to say you switch off and stop being a mother when at work but during the time you're away from your children you're delegating the work involved to someone else. Whilst a working mother is in her office or wherever I'm spending my whole day playing with, teaching and generally moulding my.children into good people. I do that all day everyday. Not to mention the fact that there's a lot more housework involved when the children are home all day being children.

I really don’t understand why people take umbrage at this question.
It’s not a term I’d use in a question or description but if someone asked “are you a full time Mum?” I’d answer “I work part time” which I suppose is neither a yes or no and avoids the debate but allows the conversation to proceed.

99 times out of 100 people asking are trying to start a conversation or be friendly, why not respond kindly?

why is a comeback required?

Arghh I find this so infuriating. People are not trying to be offensive when they say ‘full time mum’.

Some time ago, SAHM became a frowned upon position to hold and therefore PC types are aware that asking if someone is a SAHM mum is likely to offend. So, the ‘new term’ became ‘full time mum’ which is just a short hand way of saying ‘do you work outside the home or are you at home with the kids full time’.

Basically I think it’s impossible for anyone to ask about this without pissing someone off. I’m a SAHM and find the ‘Oh, so you’re not back at work? shocked head tilt ‘ responses pretty offensive too but I take it with a pinch of salt as I realise most people are just making conversation/genuinely curious and not trying to be nasty

You could just explain why you don’t like the phrase instead of being passive aggressive about it. I’m guessing the person wasn’t trying to be offensive!

I didn't know it was a controversial phrase until I joined mumsnet. Now I do I shall use it with alacrity 😉

'Whilst a working mother is in her office or wherever I'm spending my whole day playing with, teaching and generally moulding my.children into good people.'

And the implication here is that it's the time and devotion you put into it that will make your children 'good people' (are they small? I think as they grow you will realise how much they actually develop into their own people and that good parenting is more scaffolding than 'moulding') and that what WOHM do in the way of parenting somehow counts for less.

If SAHM are allowed to be sensitive about 'shocked head tilts' (I can promise I have never been shocked, much less tilted my head, on hearing that a woman is at home with her children - I wonder if there isn't some projecting going on there), then I think we WOHP* are allowed to be sensitive about the implication that our maternal devotion is somehow lesser.

*I say that as someone who works from home for herself in a mentally taxing job, almost entirely around the dc bar a few nursery hours in the mornings, and in many ways has the worst (but also the best) of both worlds.

I've really, really never encountered these people who supposedly frown upon SAHMs. Where are they all hiding?

I don't use the term 'working mother' precisely because I would not want to imply that SAHMs don't 'work'.

Heteronormative have you confused two posters? I made the shocked head tilt comment but never said anything about ‘moulding my children’ etc.

And yes, I absolutely have experienced the shocked head tilt response on more than one occasion. I could just as easily say that you are projecting by inferring malice when someone uses the term full time mum (not a term I personally use, precisely as I’m aware that it causes this sort of reaction in some!)