To alert you to the fact that Topshop just changed its policy to let men into the women's changing rooms

[YouStoleTheBowlFromTheRoom]

Been made aware of this today: a 'gender fluid' man having a pop at Topshop because he wasn't allowed to use the women's changing rooms at their Manchester store:

twitter.com/travisalabanza/status/927198660089339904

Topshop have now been quoted as apologising to him, and saying they've changed their policy to get rid of sex-segregated changing rooms altogether.

Another shop to strike off the list. Am I the only one worried this is past the point of no return?

Sorry to hear that you were attacked, Tabsicle.

I read these threads on MN and wonder if it's one of my attackers posting, or if it's just that bigotry is actually everywhere.

You're not serious, surely? When have you ever seen anyone on MN saying that transgender people should be attacked? Are you genuinely not aware that gender-critical feminists actively SUPPORT people's right to dress as they please and OPPOSE violence?

How can you possibly draw a link between you and your partner being attacked for no apparent reason, and women wanting to maintain sex-segregated boundaries when they are in a state of undress?

Datun on that we do agree. However a lot of posters here can only justify not having unisex changing rooms as men are predators. That is not a reasonable answer. Yes some men are and some are not. Yes some women make other women feel uncomfortable and some don't. The automatic "but men are bad" is my main issue with this thread. As I've said plenty of areas have had unisex changing facilities without such comments.

blanche they aren't in the same room. They may be in the same waiting/corridor area but they are not barging in on your daughters cubicle. No one i know parades naked children around cubicled changing areas.

Can I ask what fathers with daughters are supposed to do? We cannot have males in our changing rooms because it is a danger to our daughters but it is acceptable to send certain young girls in to male changing rooms because they are with a man?
I already pointed out my position with a young son who looks older. Why should he be sent alone in to this apparent lions den?

Certain areas that are now only separated by gender should be unisex, as so many already are. It removes the sense of satisfaction some men get from the power trip of demanding access; it makes it easier for parents to care for their differently sexed children; it in itself is not a big deal in this instance.

Sailor

My gym is open changing, segregated by sex. There is one cubicle, most of the women change in the open, there are tits and fannies everywhere. There would be outrage if males were allowed in. Especially from the older ladies who are there every morning for their Pilates class. So should this entitled fucker get to stop these women from exercising and socialising? Or demand that the gym makes expensive changes to the facilities?

There is one Gender Neutral/Family changing room btw but I'm guessing that would cut it for this dude

No dicks in the ladies changing room, it's not rocket science

I'm a man and I don't interpret any of these comments as man-hating so the people trying to push that agenda are wrong. Its a fact that most sex crimes are carried out by men and I don't blame women one bit for not wanting men in what should be a private space. I absolutely think these fears are legitimate and that these worrying developments are wrong.

I also don't see how these changes should be made without consulting the people affected.

No dicks in the ladies changing room, it's not rocket science

Amen

Tabsicle, I agree with a pp that you have misunderstood what posters are trying to say. But also with relation to this

"I read these threads on MN and wonder if it's one of my attackers posting."

I read the defence of "man in women's space" and think the same. Is it a poster who is so determined to attack women that they are defending the idea of getting rid of all women's safe spaces?

Assigned

I have already stated that open plan changing is segregated by sex and therefore fannies and tits only, whether you were born with them or have completed transition.

Cubicled changing areas are segregated by gender because we judge others who use them on apparent gender conformities and characteristics. We do not know what they have under their clothes.

Gender neutral - anything that is based on gender alone (cubicle changing, self contained toilets, clothes).
Single sex - anything where the sexual organs are apparent or visible (open plan changing, carers, doctor checks).

To me gender and sex are not mutually exclusive, and they can be treated differently.

In terms of a gendered changing room with cubicles my point and opinion still stands. However in your circumstances my view point is also in line with yours.

Blanchefleur - people on MN use the exact same words the attackers did as they kicked me when I was on the ground. I’ve not read through the same thread, but I can say that in the last three months I’ve repeatedly read words like ‘she-male’, ‘chick with dick’, ‘pervert’, ‘tranny’ ‘sicko’, and various declarations that ‘something must be done’. It’s not exactly comfortable stuff to see the exact words that were used as hate speech in an actual violent attack used as a part of ‘gender critical free speech’ on MN.

Ok Sailor, I can accept this argument although I think facilities need to be secure and not the shoddy curtains that are common in shop changing rooms and they should be staffed. I could accept this to be safe.

But the TRAs don't want this. They want access to the tits and fannies and to change with the women. I'm not talking about the smaller number of men with gender dysphoria, I'm talking about the straight men who have AGP and get off on forcing others to collude in their fetish. It's the TRAs with AGP who are the problem here, not the post op transexuals who have been quietly using women's facilities since forever

twitter.com/travisalabanza/status/927910577866977281

Travis on their never-maleness.

sailor, you replied to me:

they aren't in the same room. They may be in the same waiting/corridor area but they are not barging in on your daughters cubicle. No one i know parades naked children around cubicled changing areas.

I was responding to this statement:

you will care if your 12-year-old daughter is getting changed at the swimming pool and any man with a penis can change beside her once the new Act becomes law.

My experience with swimming pools has been very different to yours. As I said, my local pools are small and have largely open-plan changing areas. Other people have said the same. No, people are not parading their naked children around, of course, but women and girls are naked and in their underwear because they are taking swimsuits on and off and they have no choice but to get changed in the open. As such, we have every expectation that no man will be allowed to come in and every right to object if they do.

The reason why swimming pools has been mentioned is to draw attention to the bigger picture. If men are to be allowed in women's changing rooms, they will be allowed in all of them, everywhere, not just the ones with floor-to-ceiling lockable cubicles.

Tab
I've never seen those terms used on MN and I have been posting about this for some time. MNHQ are obviously very good at their job at deleting offensive terms

When I was 15, many moons ago, I was trying a dress on in a shop and the curtain would not close properly. The father of the woman who owned the shop was standing outside the changing room getting a good look and smirking at me obviously. I didn’t know what to do, I froze, so I just quickly got changed and paid for my dress. Oh god I just remembered, he locked the door to the shop while I was changing.

I then went into work at my Saturday job in Next, I had lied about my age to get the job. I told my supervisor, but the women in the shop kept asking, why didn’t you do something? Say something? I didn’t understand why I froze at the time so I felt ashamed and that it was my fault. I didn’t tell my family as I was ashamed.

I think pp are forgetting how it feels to be a shy vulnerable young girl and assuming that a teenage girl will respond like an adult woman if she is perved on abused or harassed.

I’m now 41 and that incident had such an effect on me I still remember the feeling of shame and exactly which knickers I was wearing that day.

Swimming pools. Ours has cubicles for everyone and then a large room size special female only dedicated changing area. This is the one I use as I have lots of kids.

Violence against trans people is totally unacceptable. What sex were your attackers?

Can I ask how many posters have been in a male changing room?

Men tend to go in, get changed and leave. They don't hang about waiting on their friends to show off their new clothes. They don't tend to bother.
I was in a shop with segragated changing facilities. The women's were closed due to maintenance. They had the option to use the men's or not try on. Many refuses to try on but in I went. The men didn't complain. They didn't leer. They didn't 'accidentally' knock my curtain. In fact, when I came out to show my dress to my sister we only ever saw a man as he entered or left a cubicle. It was not uncomfortable.
On the other hand, using a female changing room and doing the same I've been subjected to many women looking at me, not leering, but definitely passing judgement on how I looked. That is uncomfortable.

I've also used a males toilet. It was in a coffee shop with 5 individual toilets, each with a sink, toilet, bin and flower pot. One toilet was accessible for disabled patrons and had baby changing facilities. The other four were the exact same, however two had 'men' on the door and two had 'women'. The queue for the womens toilet was a few deep, with no one in the mens. Not one woman wanted to use the mens because "it was the mens toilet". I went ahead, they were the same bloody toilet.
When I left there was a man waiting, I explained the queue was big and it seemed silly to wait and he agreed.

On both occasions it is the women refusing to use the mens facilities, when once the curtain/door closed you didn't know who was behind it. The men never kicked up a fuss or made any comments.

Well then trans men should feel perfectly comfortable in men’s changing rooms then sailor.

sailorcherries

So. Fucking. What.

Here's Travis in 2014, describing himself as a man: www.bgdblog.org/2014/09/abandon-word-subtle-discussing-racism/

Wow the men's facilities sound great. No need for any males to use the women's then.

Could you clarify what point you were making there sailorcherries? I can't tell.

So if the men are not a problem in men’s changing rooms, anyone who isn’t a biological female will be perfectly happy there.

Seriously. As a previous poster said you cannot have it both ways.

If men aren’t a problem, go to the men’s.

If men are a problem, don’t let them in the women’s.

Male entitlement knows no boundaries. Girls and women should not be having to say keep penises out of female-only spaces let alone justifying their reasons for so doing.

1. It isn't safe to have a man change next to me. It is. It has happened for years. Using a male only cubicled changing room was also safe.
2. The men will all gather and ogle. Men who are trying on clothes tend to get in and get out, in my experience. They don't gather in changing rooms like teen girls.
3. Only people tring on clothes were allowed in the changing rooms.
4. Closed toilets/closed changing rooms/toilets sharing a sink are no different regardless of the symbol on the door. Unisex is not a big deal in these instances.
5. Men won't allow women in. The men didn't bat and eyelid. The women got uptight about it.

Wow the men's facilities sound great. No need for any males to use the women's then.
And if they are segregated by sex then so be it. As I've already said.
They were both examples of gender segregation. How did the women know I was a woman using the males? They judged purely on gender characteristics and not sexual organs. Gender segregation can be unisex.

I think you are missing the point.