To alert you to the fact that Topshop just changed its policy to let men into the women's changing rooms

[YouStoleTheBowlFromTheRoom]

Been made aware of this today: a 'gender fluid' man having a pop at Topshop because he wasn't allowed to use the women's changing rooms at their Manchester store:

twitter.com/travisalabanza/status/927198660089339904

Topshop have now been quoted as apologising to him, and saying they've changed their policy to get rid of sex-segregated changing rooms altogether.

Another shop to strike off the list. Am I the only one worried this is past the point of no return?

actually even if some people are being GF I think this issue also relates to general loss of privacy

we've had threads here where people are accused of body shaming children who are unhappy with communal changing rooms, I've talked about the open urinals and many people say "so what" - there is an overlap here that some people just don't care about their privacy at all and extrapolate that to "if you don't want to wave yourself naked in front of the world, you must be weird".

I think there are genuine issues and then there are things that don't bother me

"I'm alright Jack" is so massively unhelpful

Clockwork you will care if your 12-year-old daughter is getting changed at the swimming pool and any man with a penis can change beside her

What is this person going to do exactly?

Well they could do anything, that’s the problem.

I think you are just as entitled to an opinion as I am, however I feel all of our opinions deserve to be be heard.

At the moment ‘cis’ () women are not being listened to AT ALL. Why does that not bother so many women?

OK you might not like the individual in question but the transphobic comments on here are outrageous. And not cool to post and attack photos under your own perceptions of what gender is (which come across as uneducated and Daily Mailesque).

They only come across that way if you've got shit for brains. Actually, the DM is very big on male rights, dick pandering and crapping all over women. Useful idiots like you are very helpful to that type of agenda.

The best part of this is that Travis doesn't even identify as a woman. I've been aware of their work for a while: they may be problematic, but they're talented (back before they ID'd as trans, they wrote a great performance piece about their loving relationship with another gay black man challenging racism). Now I obviously understand how utterly moronic the idea that I am a woman because I identify as one is, but Travis isn't even claiming that! The level of entitlement here is actually much higher than if they were someone who felt they were a woman 100% of the time.

Unisex toilets/changing rooms can be provided for those who want to use them and I think this is the way forward but that they are provided with male female spaces

But that isn’t really the issue here it’s that the trans movement (and that isn’t every trans person) are wanting males to be accepted as women for real women (yes real woman that is a biological fact) to shut up and put up and allow them to do as they please

And to take it even further a man who claims to be gender fluid to decide on days he feels like a women to be allowed to donas he pleases

In other words women and girls shut the fuck up males will decide what is best regardless of how you feel

It makes feel so angry and just as I was thinking great women no longer feel they have to put up with sexual harassment they are encouraged to speak out but no now we have another fight on their hands and that fight is once again from men trying to gain control

Surely the changing rooms are full of cubicles, not one big room? Plenty of shops have this set up, I don't see the issue

Ok - if there's no issue why can't Travis get changed in the men's changing room in the cubicles?

Why are the wishes of ONE man more important than the wishes of women? Why are women routinely not listened to, patronised and forced to accept shit like this under the threat of being "transphobic" if they question.

I would have less of an issue if Travis actually identified as a woman 100% of the time. He doesn't. So on the whims of one chap who might feel like wearing a dress today, an entire chain of shops is removing their female spaces? And the patriarchy tramples on.

Couple of points, Sailor

1. As PP have stated, the changing rooms are a bit of a red herring, now we come to think of it. The point is that female-only spaces (whether you feel the need for them or not) are being redesignated as unisex because men demand it. It's a changing room now, but what about a rape crisis centre or a hospital ward? What happens when you feel it matters? How and where is the line drawn?

2. Trans ideology is evolving at a terrifying rate, and we now have plenty of men claiming sex is a social construct, and that they are female. We've seen cases of males being offered unisex facilities but refusing them because they want to use the female facilities. This has been allowed. So your distinction between gender/sex isn't working.

sailorcherries

That is because women are now forced to justify why they might have a problem.

If we could all sit round the table, and say right, everyone who has a problem with toilets say aye. Write that down. Everyone who has a problem with wards say aye. Write that down.

And then take a vote. That would be fine.

But it is being assumed there is no problem. So women are having to analyse, drill down, dredge up past experiences, and future possibilities.

You, for instance, and do correct me if I’m wrong, are in the cohort that doesn’t have a problem with some of it. But by the same token, you are not going to care if women object and therefore retain the female spaces. You are very neutral about certain parts of it. You’re not demanding women cede their spaces.

So part of the problem with this is that women merely saying no is not enough.

It starts from a position of violation.

Again with the cubicles. You won't be able to differentiate if the proposed law passes and in many places you already can't. If you accept the principle that anyone can say they identify as x and access said space there won't always be a handy cubicle to make you feel better about it. And do you really think it would have made a difference to Travis if the room was open plan?

Surely the easiest way to deal with this is to have changing rooms set up as: -

Male only
Female only
Unisex

You cannot say it is not safe because of one man.

I’m not saying that. Statistically, you will be safe. What I’m saying is the very men who are demanding it should be scrutinised.

Because it’s not always about safety. Men who demand entry, and nothing less, get off on boundary violation. They don’t have to attack, or commit a crime.

This fool will thoroughly enjoy taking up as much space as possible. He will thoroughly enjoy making a song and dance of it.

His need to dominate is paramount.

I am more fearful of the majority of mumsnetters on here than I am of males in female changing rooms.

There's some really nasty stuff on MN about trans stuff often. I used to date a trans woman. We were attacked in the street one night and quite badly hurt because we were holding hands. For years I always assumed we were unlucky to run into a bunch of rare bigots. I read these threads on MN and wonder if it's one of my attackers posting, or if it's just that bigotry is actually everywhere.

Not every cis man is a decent man.

Please stop with the 'cis' shit. If you respect transgendered people enough to call them by their preferred title, please respect us enough not to call us cis men/women.

It's offensive. I am not a cis woman. We are women. Or do we not matter anymore?

There are many many changing areas where the cubicles open off a corridor and just have always flimsy curtains. A lot of these shops also sell underwear- do I want to be half naked with my boobs out trying on a bra with unknown males wandering past?
No
Does that mean I think all men are rapists or sexual deviants? No, of course not.
Does that mean I hate trans people or wish them harm? No, of course not.

But for every "nice" trans woman (who may or may not have still got a penis but that's not my business ) there are 100's of male bodied perverts out there who do like, at the very least, making women feel uncomfortable and at worse, may be looking for ways to actively harm them.

Why is my wish to have safe, private single sex spaces less important than the wishes of those who want to invade them?
Could it be because I am a woman? Surely not!

It has been explained loads of times why that is not a way to deal with it though Jacques. Because Travis Alabanza and others with similar views would want to use the female. He actually states himself that he's not and has never been male.

OnionShite Despite stating three years ago that he was a man. 🙄

But yes, trans ideology now widely claims that transwomen are not just women, but are actually female. Likewise transmen -> male.

So clockworklime, you agreed that you would tell transwomen and gender fluid men that they should use the men's changing room. Great.

You then appear to not see a problem if grown men want to be in the same room as naked little girls.

Do you seriously think that the sort of man who wants to look at naked girls should be given free access to them?

Jacques "Surely the easiest way to deal with this is to have changing rooms set up as: -

Male only
Female only
Unisex"

In theory, yes. In practice, the Travis type won't use the unisex. They will demand to use the Female changing room.

I don't get why its so difficult for people to understand the different between male and female.

Male reproductive organs= Male
Female reproductive organs= Female.

Gender, is BS. Let's get rid of gender and refer to it a sex. Stop confusing the two

Because Travis Alabanza and others with similar views would want to use the female. He actually states himself that he's not and has never been male

My point being why does ONE man get to decide this? Why not a group of women?

He actually states himself that he's not and has never been male

Either you've got that wrong or he's conveniently trying to erase what he has previously said. He used to confirm himself as male

So this is the scenario

T: I'm gender fluid, I can't use male changing rooms as I am at risk
TS: Then we shall remove female spaces and make them gender neutral.
F: Hang on, we don't want to share our spaces with a male, we feel at risk.
BIGOT BIGOT BIGOT.

In a nutshell

jacques There’s a tweet on his account saying he isn’t, and never has been, male.

So yeah, basically he’s a bit of a story-lig...

I am still stuck trying to get my head around his Halloween costume was a white 15 year old girl (a child) and sexualising that child. Yet people still support him now changing with top shop main demographic.