To alert you to the fact that Topshop just changed its policy to let men into the women's changing rooms

[YouStoleTheBowlFromTheRoom]

Been made aware of this today: a 'gender fluid' man having a pop at Topshop because he wasn't allowed to use the women's changing rooms at their Manchester store:

twitter.com/travisalabanza/status/927198660089339904

Topshop have now been quoted as apologising to him, and saying they've changed their policy to get rid of sex-segregated changing rooms altogether.

Another shop to strike off the list. Am I the only one worried this is past the point of no return?

sailorcherries

No, I wasn’t talking specifically about shops. More about universities. Where this tends to start.

Umpteen threads on here of women saying that the University had changed the ladies, but not the men’s. The same with companies.

Shops will be next.

It’s a lot more tricky, obviously. Because they rely on people making the decision to come in, there and then. (Unlike unis and companies where you are a ‘captive audience’).

Leery looks from women? Oh my goodness. Why does this homophobic (because we really know we are talking about lesbians) chestnut always arise on these threads despite there being very little evidence this actually happens, as opposed to copious evidence that male sexual predation as well as violence against women is rife?

It's fascinating to see so many women (and Top Shop) capitulating to one tantrum from one male. It's a perfect example of social conditioning. A genderfluid bloke in a dress is told he can't go in one space and women fall over themselves to validate him.

And the absolute irony of this taking place against the backdrop of the #metoo campaign. There is a real push to recognise the pervasive nature of sexual harassment and assault and to put boundaries in place to protect women. To make men realise that women have the right to have boundaries. And this man's response to all that is stomp all over a boundary and women applaud and help him.

I'm not insecure. I'm incandescent with rage. And tbh if you're not angry about this then you haven't been paying attention. This isn't about gender neutral changing rooms. It's about one man's tantrum being given more validity than Equalities legislation; than sexual harassment statistics; than women's religious freedom and than women's opinions. Ask yourself why genderfluid boy's tantrum is more important than all of that? And you'll realise it's because he's a man. Women complaining changes nothing.

Papayamum

I can't link any stats.

Because the stats refute what you say. 98% of sexually violent crime is committed by men, not women.

Unless you’re suggesting that despite that overwhelming statistic, there are same number of women perving but not getting caught?

But if you don’t care about the rights of women to have female only spaces - and if the transwomen are women mantra is universally accepted, women will lose that right and it will be transphobic to mention someone’s biological sex.

The world is going fucking mad and women's rights are going backwards.

When will this end? I need some hope that people are soon going to wake up to this bullshit and the tide will turn. Surely common sense has to kick in soon?

I don't shop in Topshop. I almost wish I did so I could boycott it.

I've used over 50 different swimming pools, I've changed in them thousands of times. Each and every time there has been a 50/50 chance of a man being in the cubicle next to mine.

That's all very well sailor, but the small, local swimming pools that I use regularly have single sex, mainly open plan changing rooms with only a few cubicles. My local gym has no cubicles at all (nor has any gym that I have ever used, for that matter).

For many of us, if and when men are allowed in these women's changing rooms, for no other reason than that they have a 'female gender identity', we will quite literally be getting undressed next to them.

I don't want to have to get undressed next to any man other than my husband. I don't see why this should even be questioned.

Fraying

Great comment. One has to ask oneself why so many women are absolutely livid.

And why that doesn’t matter.

And we have to justify it. Have to trot out the same fucking statistics. Have to constantly point out how this hierarchy works.

It’s a double blow. Not only are we the bottom of the hierarchy, we now have to keep yelling about it for crumbs. It’s so insulting.

Why can’t all women say, gosh you’re right, that’s dreadful. Right, sisters, FORWARD!

I don't shop in Topshop. I almost wish I did so I could boycott it.

Make me laugh out loud. Still chuckling.

I think there are genuine issues and then there are things that don't bother me.

A unisex toilet, where there are only cubicles and shared hand washing facilities, and unisex changing rooms with cubicles are not an issue. No one is pissing in front of each other. No one is any more exposed than they were before. That is based on my experiences of using both.

My son is 7 whilst having the stature and look of an 11/12. I've had women tell me that my son being there (toilet and changing areas) makes their older daughter and themselves uncomfortable as it's a womens only room. I cannot send him in on his own as he is still young. Unisex removes a lot of this. So no, I don't have an issue with it in these situations.

It doee not mean that I have no care for other women's rights but someone identifying as a woman and using the same changing facilities as me, without being naked next to me, is not something I will fight against.

Have tweeted them to say they have lost my business. Hope others do the same.

The point is sailorcherries, no one is asking you. No-one gives a shit what you think. Or any woman.

We are not being consulted.

Datun aside from this thread asking for our opinions.

This is my opinion and I am as entitled to it as you are yours.

It won't only be in places where there are cubicles though. Do people who are saying unisex cubicles, gender neutral toilets are fine etc not realise that allowing these demands to override the principle of sex segregated spaces means that it will be open plan changing rooms, women's shelters etc too and it already is in some places. There is a bigger picture here than just a cubicle in Topshop. And you won't be able to set boundaries and say you can change next to me in a cubicle but not sleep next to me in a hospital ward.

Have tweeted them to say they have lost my business. Hope others do the same

You can only hope can't you. Sadly I think your tweet will go ignored to appease the angry trans movement.

And the absolute irony of this taking place against the backdrop of the #metoo campaign.

Exactly this!

Are there men only spaces?

😂

This is my opinion and I am as entitled to it as you are yours.

Of course. But this is part of the problem with the issue. Women are not being asked what they think.

So you, for instance, have certain concerns, and other parts of the issue don’t bother you.

The point, I think, that should bother you, is that you’re not being asked which bits you agree with and which bits you don’t. By the people who are proposing the law changes.

I personally feel as though that is as big an issue, as the issue itself.

*Clockworklime, would you also say this to a transwoman or the 'gender fluid' man who sparked this thread if they protested at being told to use the men's changing room?

If not, why not?*

Yes I would.

Because Clock is either a) a man or b) a 'woke' woman, like

Wrong but good to see you nail your colours to the mast there as a man-hating, liberal-hater

Clockwork you will care if your 12-year-old daughter is getting changed at the swimming pool and any man with a penis can change beside her

What is this person going to do exactly?

stitch private changing areas are bases on gender, we don't know what gentials people actually have under their clothing but assume based on their gender characteristics and roles. We may never know if the woman next door undergoing m to f transition but still has a penis. Much like we will never know if the man who walked into the male toilet has a penis or not.
We are basing all of these things on gender.

When it comes to anything of an intimate nature, including open plan changing facilities, thhe shift changes from assumed gender to actual sexual organs.

As I said, changing rooms and toilets are not something I will campaign against as they are based on gender. Issues that relate to sex, such as care givers/open plan changing/intimate health checks, should be operated on a sexual organs nature.

Closed changing cubicle - gender.
Open plan changing - sex.

Clockwork you will care if your 12-year-old daughter is getting changed at the swimming pool and any man with a penis can change beside her

What is this person going to do exactly?

His best friend has written a long post about how little girls are kinky and deviant.

So, what if he just ‘looked’? No crime committed, nothing you can nail him for.

You’d be okay with that?

Datun that is definitely the bigger issue but many posters on this thread did not have that are the forefront of this argument. And it is a completely different issue to what I am currently discussing.

Again datun that is focusing on this one person/their friend. Not the whole picture. Not every gender fluid, non-binary, transexual person is a sexual predator. Not every cis man is a decent man.

You cannot say it is not safe because of one man.

@bigredboat

Surely the changing rooms are full of cubicles, not one big room? Plenty of shops have this set up, I don't see the issue.

^ This.

I’m finding this whole thing actually offensive now.